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Subject: Patriot has a another fatal flaw
macawman    6/26/2003 4:03:46 PM
Not only does the Patriot get "CONFUSED" and shoots down our own planes, it has a "blind spot" for aircraft/missles flying near the deck. Ground based radar can not pick up a target beyond line of sight that are flying (NAP) near the ground until it is to late to engage. This major shortcoming defeats the purpose of placing the Patriots in the front area with tactical units. The organization with the ability to "look down" and "shoot down" with deep range from the sky is the Air Force with their AWACs and radar/IR targeting satilites. Note: If the AF had the Patriot they would likely place it near their airbases as a final point defence weapon for which it is better suited once they correct the "bugs" in the software program. If the US Army deems that they need a tactical AD weapon for low to medium altitude. The Army should use something like the Russian SA-15 Tunguska.
 
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11b10    RE:Patriot has a another fatal flaw   6/26/2003 7:28:49 PM
Your right about the Patriot,the Marines were working on an AMRAAM based System,but it has dropped of the screen for some reason.Whether the Army deems it useful or not I think they need a medium range anti-air system.
 
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Thomas    RE:Patriot has a another fatal flaw   6/27/2003 2:35:50 AM
The way to deal with low fliers is to put observers forward - we are talkin 5 miles minimum - with stingers. They won't hit much, but they will "lift" the enemy into the radar.
 
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Kodiak    RE:Patriot has a another fatal flaw   6/27/2003 9:49:29 AM
the patriot did down down a number of Iraqi missles
 
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SGTObvious    Stingers   6/27/2003 10:29:07 AM
Those little buggers are pretty effective. The US army dumped the Chaparral because the MANPAD stinger outperformed the track vehicle mounted Chap, in range and lethality. Tactically, they can deploy to high ground locations that other AD systems can't get to, and they have very little signature, so (in exercises, at least) pilots end up getting surprised at where stingers come from. OTOH, the US Army has never had to face a foe with air superiority, and with any luck never will. But it does mean we've kinda neglected that branch.
 
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11b10    RE:Patriot has a another fatal flaw   6/27/2003 3:09:47 PM
Only the Stinger Block 2 is reliable agianst choppers in ground clutter.The Stinger nor the Patriot are reliable against terrain hugging aircraft,and cruise missiles.Also Airforces that deploy some ground attack missiles have a standoff range beyond the Stinger and can stay easily below the engagement altitude of the Patriot.
 
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SGTObvious    RE:Patriot has a another fatal flaw, 11b10   6/27/2003 3:59:47 PM
You are absolutely right about aircraft being able to stay beyond the range of a Stinger. That is, provided, they know where it is. I've seen the Stinger teams get into "creative" positions. USAF officers get this really frustrated look when they try to convince the exercise controller that the plane could not have been shot down because the Stinger team just couldn't have been there. It's priceless.
 
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AlbanyRifles    RE:Patriot has a another fatal flaw, 11b10   6/30/2003 7:47:34 AM
Also, the SHORAD for most US Army units is the a generous mix of MANPAD STINGERS with the AVENGER, a HMMWV with a 4 STINGER missile launcher and a .50 CAL machine gun for point defense. There is a 18 - 24 gun battery per division with several battalions in corps AA brigade. Mech units have the LINBACKER which is a Bradley Fighting Vehicle variant, 4 STINGERS instead of 2 TOWs in the launcher and the 25mm cannon. Pretty effective weapon systems. Oh, and BTW, the PATRIOT had a lower number of fratracides than was expected......
 
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Red Star v.2    RE:Patriot has a another fatal flaw   7/9/2003 10:45:29 AM
Why don't you guys but some russian SAMs then? They are better than the Patriot at everything! Or is it too hard for you to admit that you are not the best at something? (no offfence or anything)
 
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Shaka of Carthage    RE:Patriot has a another fatal flaw   7/9/2003 11:47:52 AM
There is the issue of the "not invented here" syndrome. US does it with its European allies all the time, so its not personal. In the case of the SAMs, I would think its because the weapons complexity assumes two different type users. And once the "kinks" are worked out with the Patriot, it will be superior for the type of missions its to perform than any Russian system.
 
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AlbanyRifles    RE:Patriot has a another fatal flaw   7/9/2003 11:50:21 AM
Actually, I would like to see a land version of the US Navy's Standard SM-IV. Awesome missile when tied into the Aegis system.
 
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