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Subject: Just how good is China's economy?
Zhang Fei    11/5/2008 8:57:06 PM
Long skeptical essay about China's economic prospects and the difficulty in figuring out the size and actual growth rate of China's economy after removing the government-sponsored and -added fluff. (Quote) Australia's reliance on China's economy Despite a lack of clear evidence that the global economic crisis will not worsen, the Rudd Government is confident that China's ongoing demand will continue to drive our resources sector, contributing to state and federal coffers and offset any downturn. Is Rudd relying on China's US$1.9 trillion foreign currency reserve substantially insulating it from the global crisis? China in the global economy China is a huge assembly plant, importing components, energy and raw materials to produce goods for export, reliant on high volumes and low margins. While it earns trillions in foreign exchange, re-exportable content is in the high billions. Advertisement China distorts the "level playing field" in world trade with a range of subsidies including those paid to state-owned petroleum refineries forced to sell petrol, diesel and refined petroleum products well below cost. In 2008, Sinopec received billions of dollars to protect its bottom line. Subsidies paid to PetroChem were not disclosed. Private refiners received no subsidies and shut down operations to avoid losses. Many state-owned enterprises operate at a loss just to earn foreign exchange and provide employment, losses concealed by off balance sheet accounting. 2009 growth estimates Pre crisis, China accounted for about 5 per cent of total world GDP. The USA accounted for 28 per cent. China also accounts for roughly 12 per cent of global manufacturing. Domestic demand however, accounts for just 43 per cent of China's GDP. America and Europe consume more than 40 per cent of China's exports. China's 2008 third quarter GDP growth slipped to 9 per cent on the back of successive monthly declines, the lowest since 2003. China's export growth rate is estimated to plummet from 21 per cent in 2008 to a low of 10 per cent in 2009. Factory closures Guandong is the major centre for export manufacturers which employ about 10 million. In the first seven months of 2008, safety standards non-compliance closed over 50 per cent of China's toy exporting factories. New credits restrictions are severely impacting on the supply chain. Exporter's who once received payment ex-factory, are now giving 90 days credit and warehousing surplus stock. Closures range from global brands to component manufacturers: 18,000 of the 70,000 Hong Kong owned factories will close following deliveries for Christmas and Chinese New Year orders. Some will close earlier. An initial 2.7 million jobs are estimated to disappear. Demonstrations by sacked workers demanding unpaid wages are increasing. Mining and heavy industry are also suffering The shut down of heavy industry and power generation to reduce pollution during the Beijing 2008 Olympics is blamed for the steel industry slowdown. The real causes however were evident in June 2008. Steel China produces 40 per cent of the world's steel. Construction, household appliances and the car industry are China's major domestic steel consumers. The property sector alone consumed 38 per cent of that demand. Restructuring the steel industry, improved efficiencies, fierce competition between the new giants and steadily declining demand resulted in oversupply and plummeting steel prices. Since June 2008, ore stockpiles were increasing at terminals and steel mills. Suppliers were asked to delay shipments. Brazil shipments have almost ceased. By mid September domestic steel prices had dropped by 37 per cent and spot prices dropped 44 per cent. Major steel mills in the north, central and south are cutting production. One Hebei group cut production by 20 million tonnes, (35 million tonnes iron ore equivalent). A further 20 per cent cut is forecast November/December. Another Hebei mill shut the furnaces and sent workers home. Facing operating losses of US$150 per tonne, commissioning of the new hi-tech Caofeidian steel mill is delayed indefinitely. Coal mining Like steel, China's coal industry is also undergoing major restructuring. Thousands of smaller mines are closing adding to unemployment. New huge mechanised open cut steaming and coking coal mines are opening in Inner Mongolia and Mongolia. Dedicated heavy duty railways connect the mines to major industrial and power generating bases in China reducing transport bottlenecks caused by the endless convoys of trucks and trains from the smaller mines, forcing more closures and layoffs. What is China's consumer economy China's 1.3 billion population is considered a massive untapped consumer market. The reality however, is different. Eight hundred million of the 1.3 billion "consumers" are categorised as rural peasants. Add to that the hundreds of millions of low paid urban workers and unregister
 
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EvilChinese       3/17/2009 3:36:05 AM





Not actually. In cities most children like I do is to buy a new, bigger house for the whole family.






That's one apartment bought and two are going to be sold. You see the problem now?
No. Ususally the parents will not sell their own house because they'd also like to live there occasionally.
In my case, I'd also like to keep my old house for rent if I'd afford the new one so it's 1 apartment bought and 0~1 sold, you see?
 
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YelliChink       3/17/2009 4:07:25 AM

No. Ususally the parents will not sell their own house because they'd also like to live there occasionally.

In my case, I'd also like to keep my old house for rent if I'd afford the new one so it's 1 apartment bought and 0~1 sold, you see?

You'll find that is actually a stupid long-term financial plan, especially in declining housing market. Supply of housing in major Chinese city is now best described as plethora, and everybody is expecting a housing crash and collapse on construction. The price of rent is pegged to mortgage payment. Thus, you'll not be making any money to rent for housing if you are still paying mortgage. Rent for business, on the other hand, is another story.
 
Unless you're well-off. That's another story. People who are well-off in PRC always are related to high commies one way or another.
 
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EvilChinese       3/17/2009 4:34:42 AM



You'll find that is actually a stupid long-term financial plan, especially in declining housing market. Supply of housing in major Chinese city is now best described as plethora, and everybody is expecting a housing crash and collapse on construction. The price of rent is pegged to mortgage payment. Thus, you'll not be making any money to rent for housing if you are still paying mortgage. Rent for business, on the other hand, is another story.

 

Unless you're well-off. That's another story. People who are well-off in PRC always are related to high commies one way or another.

I've already paid up my loans for my house, my car and everthing so no worries, dude. I think the crash will not happen but the price will eventually drop to a reasonable level this year.

As for your second point, I will not deny that many well-off SOBs are related to high rank commie officials so what? There are too many opportunities in China in the last 2 decades and many ordinary people get rich too. I can't say I'm well-off but I work hard and stand on my own feet to support my happy little family -- should I feel shame on it?
 
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Heenanc       5/6/2009 7:50:06 PM







You'll find that is actually a stupid long-term financial plan, especially in declining housing market. Supply of housing in major Chinese city is now best described as plethora, and everybody is expecting a housing crash and collapse on construction. The price of rent is pegged to mortgage payment. Thus, you'll not be making any money to rent for housing if you are still paying mortgage. Rent for business, on the other hand, is another story.



 



Unless you're well-off. That's another story. People who are well-off in PRC always are related to high commies one way or another.





I've already paid up my loans for my house, my car and everthing so no worries, dude. I think the crash will not happen but the price will eventually drop to a reasonable level this year.





As for your second point, I will not deny that many well-off SOBs are related to high rank commie officials so what? There are too many opportunities in China in the last 2 decades and many ordinary people get rich too. I can't say I'm well-off but I work hard and stand on my own feet to support my happy little family -- should I feel shame on it?


Well call me a hippy but the population can't keep on increasing as it is at the moment 'it just can't' if you don't believe that then your living in la la land, the Chinese are the only country to tackle this problem and I seriously do bow down to them as the most advance thinking society on the plant, no other country has done anything to try and stop the virus that is the human. If you look at cetain bacteria, the devepment of the web, how weeds grow in your garden human are just simulating the same process. It has too stop. You can cry what the heck this guy is mad but this is because you won't feel the affects it is your children that will feel the affect so to hell with children that's what your saying.
 
 
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zarita    China Economy   4/21/2011 4:06:59 AM
 
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zarita    China Economy   4/21/2011 4:11:51 AM
China's central financial institution once again bumped up the level of cash reserves the nation's banks must hold. The move is a try to curb Chinese inflation that is emerging as a serious threat to a global economy reliant on cheap Chinese exports. Donald Trump, who has suckered the media into believing he may run for president, has offered a solution to Chinese rising prices that involves a 25 percent tariff on Chinese imports, a suggestion that has been universally debunked by people who know something about such subjects. I found this here: China struggles to curb inflat...
 
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YelliChink       4/21/2011 12:49:12 PM

China's central financial institution once again bumped up the level of cash reserves the nation's banks must hold. The move is a try to curb Chinese inflation that is emerging as a serious threat to a global economy reliant on cheap Chinese exports. Donald Trump, who has suckered the media into believing he may run for president, has offered a solution to Chinese rising prices that involves a 25 percent tariff on Chinese imports, a suggestion that has been universally debunked by people who know something about such subjects. I found this here: China struggles to curb inflat...

Chinese inflation is not a serious threat to global economy, as RMB is not global trade currency and still subject to commie manipulation. The world economy does not depend on Chinese exports. On the contrary, Chinese exports are destroying industrial base in both developed and emerging economy, as low-level manufacturing is blocked out for workers and labors in other countries.
 
Most Chinese labors are also getting the short hand out of this deal as well. The wage structure is the problem in Chinese economy. The root of all ills in Chinese economy is that people don't have full rights to own real estates, and the actions of local government pushes peasants into peasant workers, jeopardizing labor market, and changed the lands used to be small farms into high-rise apartment buildings, factories and commercial skyscraper as a mean to transfer real value from the states to themselves.
 
This has been the work of middle and low commies who have zero faith in the system and know what the deal is for them. The high commies thought that they can have it all, but the middle and low commies are scooping as much as they can.
 
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