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Subject: The wars seventh day.
Michael Ben-Yair    5/3/2002 10:52:36 PM
The Six-day war's seventh day lives on for over 35 years has transformed us from a moral society, sure of the justice of Israel's creation, into a society that oppresses another people, preventing it from realizing its legitimate national aspirations. The Six-Day war's seventh day has transformed us from a jsut society inot an unjust one, prepared to expand its control atop another nations ruins. The discarding of our moral foundation has hurt us as a society, reinforcing the arguements of the worlds hostile elements and sowers of evil and intensifying their influence. The intifada is the Palestinian peoples war of national liberation. historical processes teach us that no nation is prepared to live under anothers domination and that a suppressed peoples war of national liberation will inevitably succeed. We understand this point but choose to ignore it. We are prepared to engage in confrontation to prevent an historical process, although we are well aware that this process is anchored in the moral justification behind every peoples war of national liberation and behind its right to self-determination, and although we are well aware that this process will attain its inevitable goal. This is the background of the difficult testimony we have recieved about actions of Israels Defense Force personnel in the occupied terrotories. No need to repeat the details of the painful phenomena entailed in the occupation regime and in our battle to prolong it. Suffice it to recall the killing of little children fleeing for saftey, the executions, without trial, of wanted persons who were not on their way to launch a terrorist attack, and the encirclements,closures and roadblocks that have turned the lives of millions into a nightmare. Even if all these actions stem from our need to defend ourselves under an occupations conditions, the occupations non-existence would render them unnecessary. Thus, a black flag hovers over these actions. This is a harsh reality that is causing us to lose the moral base of our existence as a free, just society and to jeopardize Israel's long-range survival. Israels security cannot be based only on the sword, it must rather be based on our principles of moral justice and on peace with our neighbors- those living next door and those living a little further away. An occupation regime undermines those principles of moral justice and prevents the attainment of peace. Thus, that regime endangers Israels existence. It is against this background that one must vieww the refusal of IDF reservist officers and soldiers to serve in the territories. In their eyes, the occupation regime is evil and military service in the occupied territories is evil. In their eyes, military service in the occupied territories, which places soldiers in situations forcing them to commit immoral acts, is evil, and according to their conscience, they cannot be party to such acts. Thus, their refusal to serve is an act of conscience that is justified and recognized in every democratic regime. Historys verdict will be that their refusal was the act that restored our moral backbone. Thats whats really going on, I speak from experiance.
 
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LT    RE:The wars seventh day.   5/4/2002 4:15:08 AM
Israel tried to live in peace and is trying to live in peace, but the wacko (that means crazy) Palestinians and other Arabs with small penises keep attacking the valiant and brave Israelis. So do you Truth/Mallrunt/Chief/drip.
 
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CP to Michael Ben-Yair    RE:The wars seventh day.   5/4/2002 8:51:04 AM
Your great nation of Israel provides the electricity, clean water, food and other amenities to the "oppressed" Palestinians in the West Bank, while the internationally recognized force for Palestinian self-determination, the Palestinian Authority, squanders its resources planning and executing terrorist attacks on your civilians alongside the various religious extremists who call for the total annihilation of the Jews, the very people your nation and the Palestinian Authority have signed agreements to counter and imprison. Your great nation of Israel has offered 100% withdrawal from the Gaza Strip and the West Bank, in exchange for the self-determined Palestinian Authority to make positive steps toward providing an independent, self-sufficient, secure infrastructure that respects civilized behavior, tolerance and the rule of law. Instead, that Palestinian Authority blames YOU for their failure while they actively spend their resources and squander your charity teachng their children to hate you, and purchasing the weapons and bombs to kill you. Their television and radio stations powered by the electricity you provide call for your death. Instead of civilized behavior, tolerance, and the rule of law, the Palestinian Authority provides terrorism, hatred, and injustice. If your nation "withdrew" under these conditions, the Palestinians would quickly starve to death, and suffer needlessly the whims of thugs and warlords out to execute "infidels" and "collaborators" who would dare break the Koran's mandate to never befriend a Jew. If you want a picture of what an "unoccupied" West Bank would look like, look at Afghanistan under the rule of the Taliban. The Israeli occupation of the territories is a purely humanitarian effort.
 
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bsl    RE:The wars seventh day.   5/5/2002 11:52:38 PM
This is a combination of silly rhetoric, historical inaccuracies, and willful blindness. . "historical processes teach us that no nation is prepared to live under anothers domination and that a suppressed peoples war of national liberation will inevitably succeed" This could be translated, equally well, into or from a Soviet or Maoist pamphlet. It's cant, not analysis or history. "discarding of our moral foundation " Nonsense. Self defense from national anihilation is an ethical action in any system of ethics I've ever come across. There isn't enough space to refute all your errors. There WAS no Palestinian nation in 1967. Virtually EVERY Arab country said so, in public, often at the time. Indeed, most of the people present seemed to identify with their occupying power; especially Jordan (although often with the thought that someday that country would be led not by a Hashemite, but by one of their cousins). The occupation was CAUSED by the universal Arab effort to destroy Israel and was not ended RIGHT THEN because of the universal Arab effort to continue that effort, AFTER the defeat of June, 1967. Israel tried, HARD, to negotiate a settlement which would, back then, have returned the land. It was only over time that the complete failure of the Arabs to respond led to the necessity to follow another policy, which is where the settlement and absorbtion program came from. AND, in the begining, even that was really only intended to pressure the Arabs to come to the table. Is it moral, now? Depends what you think the Arabs really are about. If, as the Israeli left believed through the collapse of the last negotiations, that there WAS a possible compromise settlement, then your ideas might have some slight currency. However, since then, the Israeli left has, by a HUGE majority, concluded that the Arabs are about what they've always been about, and that there is no settlement possible which will bring real peace. So, you're reduced to claiming that by giving the Arabs all they ask for (at the moment), they'll prove THEMSELVES to be liars, and simply adopt your own Utopian visions. Right. And Hitler was only a nationalist with perfectly legitimate goals. Dream on....
 
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CP to bsl    RE:The wars seventh day.   5/6/2002 5:54:11 AM
"Self defense from national anihilation is an ethical action in any system of ethics I've ever come across." Ghandhi's civil disobedience and fasting won sympathy. But Ghandhi had something Arab Palestinians do not seem to possess. Suicide bombers do not possess this. It's called "courage."
 
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