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Subject: No Tears For The T-50
SYSOP    4/21/2015 5:46:02 AM
 
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keffler25       4/21/2015 8:08:30 AM
 
MEAT on the table.
 
The good news is that Russian (Sukhoi) tech is still better than Chinese (Chengdu) tech. So maybe the badly flawed F-35 will be able to hold its own after all.
 
 
 
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Spiky    $300 million   4/21/2015 8:21:12 AM
It's for a good cause; I'm sure some of the $300 million when to good causes such as new "Dachas," new "BMWs," and plenty of the good quality "Vodka.".......... "This aircraft is the Russian answer to the U.S. F-22 and according to the Indians, who have contributed $300 million (so far) to development of the T-50, they are entitled by the 2007 agreement with Russia to have access to technical details."
 
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keffler25       4/21/2015 8:39:35 AM
Excerpt...
 
"The papers claim that the radar cross-section (RCS) of an Su-27 was in the order of 10-15 m 2 , with the intention being to reduce the size of the RCS in the T-50 to an "average figure of 0.1-1 m 2...In particular, the patent spells out the benefits of internal weapons carriage, s-shaped engine air ducts, (which were considered but are actually not implemented in the production PAK FA), and the use of radar blockers. It adds that the inlet guide vanes of the engines' compressors generate "a significant portion [up to 60%] of the radar cross-section of the airframe-powerplant system in the forward hemisphere" and that this is reduced by using radar-blocking devices and radar-absorbing coatings in the walls of the air ducts."^1

David Axe's details the PAK FA's reliability problems further in an article called, The Indians HATE Their New Russian-Made Stealth Fighter.

"Press reports in 2013 indicated that Sukhoi was having problems with quality control in the T-50 effort. At least
one of the prototypes needed patches on its wings to keep from falling apart during high-stress maneuvers ." - David Axe, 2014" "
 
^1 Yep, that would be all a Super Hornet radar/AMRAAM combo needs to see and WHAMMO.   
 
 
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Tamerlane    It's the process engineering, Stupid!   4/21/2015 11:08:21 AM
Been there...any knothead knows the math for the components, gluing all this Sierra together so it don't fall apart in flight is the hard part.  Further, anybody want to fly a Russky-built fly-by-wire machine to the edge of the envelope?
 
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jessmo_24       4/21/2015 12:21:37 PM
Syop can you get your facts straight about the F-35? How are the numbers reduced with more people signing on? Who has left the program or reduced numbers? Singapore is considering signing. And its politics holding back massive Middle sales. Do you know how much LRIP contracts 8 and 9 cost? Common I could have written a better article.
 
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keffler25       4/21/2015 1:35:15 PM
 
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jessmo_24       4/21/2015 4:52:37 PM
I was just pointing out how at times, hisvarticles seem very cut and paste. No F-35members have dropped out the program has grown. and yet he wont take 5 minutes to google that.
 
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Nate Dog    Jesmo   4/21/2015 11:38:48 PM
I thought i'd read that the US AF was cutting back orders as were USN and even Marines, between those 3 arms, i think that's close to 50% of projected sales. Even if none of the foreign customers cut orders, a small reduction by local buyers in US will equal a significant production cut.

As to the T-50's not doing well on the development and builds, its hardly a surprise. The former soviets, or the dregs of them that are left, are struggling to make the refurbed migs and sukois stay in the air, never mind preform well, so its hardly surprising that a ground up design isn't working that well.
I think the investment in developmental costs is ridiculously low. The Koreans are finding out the hard way how little $5 billion goes as regards aircraft development, and thats only for a knock off, F-16 capability equivalent derived on an existing developed trainer. The Russians are spending a fraction of that on a ground up re-design.... Would be amazed if it happens in the next decade...
 
 
 
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jessmo_24       4/22/2015 2:59:43 AM
Link please. Where have the Usaf numbers been cut? The last I saw Israel wants 100, Korea 50, Japan, 50 Thats a extra 200 orders. Keep in mind both the USAF, and the navy are facing  fighter shortfall. Im just pointing out facts please.
 
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Nate Dog    Jessmo   4/23/2015 1:32:26 AM
 
point of interest:
 
The projected price tag of $391.2 billion for an eventual fleet of 2,443 F-35s is a 68 percent increase from the estimate in 2001, measured in current dollars. The number of aircraft is 409 fewer than called for in the original program.
 
That took all of 7 seconds. There are plenty more articles on the subject, you aren't quoting facts, there are numerous sightations of cuts to production numbers. The above article alone represents a 10% cuts.
The Israeli 100 plane purchase isn't anything new. Israel was originally supposed to be one of the founding build partners, but due to... political differences, they were cut from the core program. IAF was always going to be purchasing a bunch of these planes and that was part of the build projection. (in context, outside of USAF, IAF is the worlds largest operator of both F-15's and F-16's, they used to be for F-4's too, so, they were always going to be the biggest external customer. And probably will be again once UK cuts its orders, as it inevitably will, favouring nuclear deterrence to a viable flat tops air wing.
 
If this isn't enough, dunno what is. Articles on the subject abound. Not sure why you're petulantly demanding we post articles rather than doing a little reading yourself. We're not beating you up. This is a discussion forum. Of sorts.
 
Keffler, keep that in mind the next time the cretin posts. Don't get into a baiting match with him please. 
HR, that goes doubly for you.
 
 
 
 
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