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Subject: Reality Intervenes To Save The A-10
SYSOP    2/25/2015 5:57:47 AM
 
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timon_phocas       2/25/2015 9:56:16 AM
My son, a joint fires-trained forward observer, has had 2 tours in Afghanistan. He preferred to use F-15's over A-10's. A-10's had to fly low. When the Taliban saw the A-10 they would break contact and run away. F-15's flew so high they were more or less invisible, and a bomb from them was a bolt out of the blue. His preference was to kill the Taliban, not just chase them away. The new sensor paks on the A-10's might allow them to orbit higher and still engage.
 
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davebarnes    Go Army   2/25/2015 11:45:25 AM
Just give the A-10s to the US Army.
 Planes, pilots, support staff, spare parts, etc.
 
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avatar3    Go Army   2/25/2015 4:01:41 PM
Not only will the Army take them but they will be funded, maintained and cherished in a manner befitting a first class piece of combat equipment, which they area. Sorry about the AF Officers though, we use Warrant Officers as aviators, no 06's in the cockpit here.
 
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keffler25       2/25/2015 5:01:53 PM
I do find that somewhat misleading, Avatar. In a famous 1991 Iraq War incident, a colonel flying an Apache lost situational awareness, disobeyed orders to refrain from direct combat lead, and/or failed to follow proper indentifier procedures (unclear) and let loose a missile that hit a US armored fighting vehicle and engaged with guns. There was some equipment (Blue Tracker information that was accurate) that gave conflicting data to ground observer (They screwed up, too.) supplied radio information. The whole communication foul up was later tracked to weather effects (Wind.) that discombobulated all persons involved by blowing the Apaches off where the pilots thought they were.
 
Really, I feel badly for all the people who were caught in that utter fiasco. The machines worked exactly as designed to warn the pilots, and the men failed to trust the macbines and their own gut instincts that something was wrong.  
 

 
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Flyingarty2    Some balls   2/25/2015 5:55:41 PM
Some ballsy president needs to repeal the Army/Airforce accord and give the army an aircorp back with some stipulations.....
 
 
Flyingarty
 
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avatar3    Keff   2/26/2015 1:10:39 AM
I remember it well. Another instance of a senior officer not being where he was supposed to be and doing what he had been trained to do, in this case on the ground and in management.
 
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leftwinger       2/26/2015 1:01:07 PM
I don't believe ANY president could overturn the Army/Air Force accord on his own. I am sure Congress has the final say.
 
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joe6pack    Lefty   2/26/2015 2:22:37 PM
"I don't believe ANY president could overturn the Army/Air Force accord on his own. I am sure Congress has the final say."
 
He's (or she) could certainly overturn any "agreement" between the Army and Air Force.
Congress is not part of the chain of command.
 
Congress could opt not to fund aircraft for the Army.. power of the purse.. but given current politics.. it's a power the President (current office holder) doesn't believe Congress should have..
 
Anyhow.. a President could do it.. whether Congress would cause them grief about it.. who knows.. I'm a little shocked how much Congress is involving themselves in the A-10.. period.
 
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HeavyD    Let The Army Have CAS   2/27/2015 12:40:26 PM
The Air Force wants to provide CAS on their terms, not on their "customer's" terms. Fuck 'em. Give the A-10 and future CAS responsibilities and budgets to the Army. Kinda like how the Marines do it. Oh, and flinging glide bombs from 20,000/feet, unseen and unheard is dandy. But just watch the vids or talk to the boots: an A-10 is far better for morale, far better to scatter Bad Guys when the good guys are pinned down. THIS is the essence of CAS, its what the Marine airwings understand and what the Fighter Mafia never will.
 
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keffler25       2/27/2015 8:03:26 PM
Stick to philosophy, please. Effectiveness is the only criteria worth a damn in combat. Bombs suddenly among you will scatter you faster than a gun run. That is those of you still left alive.
The Air Force wants to provide CAS on their terms, not on their "customer's" terms.

Fuck 'em. Give the A-10 and future CAS responsibilities and budgets to the Army.

Kinda like how the Marines do it.

Oh, and flinging glide bombs from 20,000/feet, unseen and unheard is dandy. But just watch the vids or talk to the boots: an A-10 is far better for morale, far better to scatter Bad Guys when the good guys are pinned down. THIS is the essence of CAS, its what the Marine airwings understand and what the Fighter Mafia never will.

 
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