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Subject: Gripen Abides
SYSOP    11/13/2014 5:27:34 AM
 
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keffler25       11/13/2014 3:35:04 PM
A shame India went for Rafale. The Gripen is better for what they need. (Coded for American and Russian weapons, by extension ISRAELI weapons will work as well since Israeli tech IS American and [captured] Russian.)    
 
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trenchsol       11/13/2014 4:32:12 PM
At some point, which might not be far in the future, the development and upgrades to F-16 will stop. Sweden and Saab are, on the other hand, committed to Grippen.
 
 
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voland       11/13/2014 8:26:59 PM

 
oh, and Israel used to use captured russian tanks, back in the day, but not in combat context.
 
 
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voland       11/13/2014 8:27:21 PM

 
oh, and Israel used to use captured russian tanks, back in the day, but not in combat context.
 
 
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voland       11/13/2014 8:41:30 PM


oh, and Israel used to use captured russian tanks, back in the day, but not in combat context.
 
 
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HR    Kefflerian logic   11/13/2014 9:46:33 PM
Th Gripen is a fine aircraft for Brazil but ot fo India. India needs three tings that Gripen does not have rght now,
 
(1) Must be nuclear capable. The Rafale is and the Gripen is not.
 
(2) It needs to have range. The Gripen iso short legged for the missions that India has in mnd.
 
(3) It needs to have maritime capabilities. The Rafalhave those thanks o the French Navy but the gripen's ones are still in the future and dependent on Brazil's aerospace industry.
 
So nope... the Rafale was a better choice and so would have been the Eurofighter or the F-15E. 
 
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Nate Dog    erm, what?   11/13/2014 10:10:25 PM
Captured russian tanks, not sure how they came into this, dont think thats what Kef was referencing, but:
They were definitely used in combat, in 73 i know of for sure (dad was a gunner in a T-55).
Rafale hasn't really won jack in India tender. India is doing its usual nonsense, if anything i feel sorry for  Rafale, they're really counting on India for this one, and going by past experience, that means they'll never see a farthing of any money so far 'committed'.
Nor do i buy your assertion that F-16's upgrades will soon stop, A) production line is open until the 20's based on current orders. B) Block 60 includes Link 16, and the bigger operators of F-16's whom are still at least a decade away from fielding large quantities of F-35's will continue working on them (half of Nato + Israel).
Grippen might not suite India, but Rafael most certainly suites no one. Expensive, costs as much as 5th gen stuff, being sold way too late. Grippen's short legs may weigh against it, but India's not industrialised enough to maintain the super complex Rafael, Grippen with lots of aerial refuelling would be an easier cheaper option. 
As to the nuclear capable demand, didn't realise that was part of the demand for the Indian tender. thought their Nuke capability was mostly mounted on ballistic missiles. 
 
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keffler25       11/13/2014 10:25:34 PM
ROTFLMAO at you.
 
You know you are WRONG again? Attend and LEARN;
 
So nope... the Rafale was a better choice and so would have been the Eurofighter or the F-15E. 
 
The F-15E was too expensive (and AMERICAN. A lot of Indian politicians HATE the US.) and the Eurofighter wasn't ready. (tail falls off due to defective BAE manufacturing remember, HR?)  

 
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keffler25       11/13/2014 10:27:00 PM
ROTFLMAO at you.
 
You know you are WRONG again? Attend and LEARN;

Th Gripen is a fine aircraft for Brazil but ot fo India. India needs three tings that Gripen does not have rght now,

BULL.

(1) Must be nuclear capable. The Rafale is and the Gripen is not.

The RUSSIAN style nuclear weapons that India uses are NOT coded for RAFALE. The French will not sell India French nuclear TECH. Nor can India do that work herself.  The interfaces are unique.

(2) It needs to have range. The Gripen iso short legged for the missions that India has in mnd.

So is the Rafale (not more than 90 minutes without drop tanks, 70 minutes for Gripen by the way.).   DEEP STRIKE is what the Sukhois are for. (3 + hours on internal fuel loaded.) So you LIED again, HR.

(3) It needs to have maritime capabilities. The Rafale have those thanks o the French Navy but the gripen's ones are still in the future and dependent on Brazil's aerospace industry.

Nonexistent in the version India will receive. Again the French will NOT SELL their PGM tech to India. Weapons yes but NOT the tech. That's a deal breaker at sea.  India will use Migs and Sukhois for the maritime role because they use RUSSIAN missiles that India makes locally. The Rafale was bought merely as an INTERCEPTOR light attack bomber to replace the Mig 21s, you incompetent. Free fall bombs, maybe some LGBS and MICA were/are in the total sales package; all French made and sold and all with associated French PROBLEMS (in that the tech used is a bit primitive even by RUSSIAN standards.) and the French cannot be relied upon as suppliers if India dusts up with the other French customer--> Red China.      

So nope... the Rafale was a better choice and so would have been the Eurofighter or the F-15E. 
 
The F-15E was too expensive (and AMERICAN. A lot of Indian politicians HATE the US.) and the Eurofighter wasn't ready. (tail falls off due to defective BAE manufacturing remember, HR?) 
 
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Nate Dog    erm, what?   11/13/2014 11:06:14 PM
Captured russian tanks, not sure how they came into this, dont think thats what Kef was referencing, but:
They were definitely used in combat, in 73 i know of for sure (dad was a gunner in a T-55).
Rafale hasn't really won jack in India tender. India is doing its usual nonsense, if anything i feel sorry for  Rafale, they're really counting on India for this one, and going by past experience, that means they'll never see a farthing of any money so far 'committed'.
Nor do i buy your assertion that F-16's upgrades will soon stop, A) production line is open until the 20's based on current orders. B) Block 60 includes Link 16, and the bigger operators of F-16's whom are still at least a decade away from fielding large quantities of F-35's will continue working on them (half of Nato + Israel).
Grippen might not suite India, but Rafael most certainly suites no one. Expensive, costs as much as 5th gen stuff, being sold way too late. Grippen's short legs may weigh against it, but India's not industrialised enough to maintain the super complex Rafael, Grippen with lots of aerial refuelling would be an easier cheaper option. 
As to the nuclear capable demand, didn't realise that was part of the demand for the Indian tender. thought their Nuke capability was mostly mounted on ballistic missiles. 
 
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