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Subject: Libyan No Fly Zone
giblets    3/17/2011 6:03:02 PM
Seeing as there does not appear to be a Libyan discussion area (an omission surely?). Thought it would be worth discussing. With the UN currently voting on a no fly zone, and talk of this being led by the EU and contribution by up to 5 arab nations. Who would contribute what? Am sure the RAF could contribute Tornados for the early stage of the process (the SEAD phase), but would like to see the Typhoons involved later. As for teh French, likely to include Rafales? And Arab countries, Saudi with their F-15's or Typhoons (if they are trained up). The UAE could use their block 60's? And surely Egypt would be involved on this one.
 
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heavy       3/24/2011 2:54:26 PM
Citing Breitbart does not particularly bolster your credibility in assessing journalistic sources or methods. What's next, WND?

Your tone speaks volumes about your general mental and emotional state. Try and remember that you are an adult every once in a while. It helps to imagine that you are speaking with other adults in person. I wonder how often you sprinkle your real life interactions with gratuitous bold/italics/underline, and how often such frothing jackassery earns you a trip to the dentist. Save it for the Russia Strong children or whatever else passes for sport here on stratpage, if you can't resist the compulsion.

It is true that there are SF advisers on the ground and it is simultaneously true that the rebels are extremely poorly equipped. I thought I explained why pretty logically.
 
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jessmo_24       3/24/2011 3:12:37 PM
* sits back,*  eats popcorn*
 
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Das Kardinal       3/24/2011 3:46:24 PM
Flight Global : Why not F-22s over Libya
Pretty much the reasons expected (including those in the comment by Analyst).
I didn't know the APG-77 lacked A2G modes, though. Aaaaand on that I'll refrain from making any sarcastic comment :)
 
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heraldabc       3/24/2011 9:01:44 PM
Gottlieb is accurate.
 
 Don't try to psychoanalyze me, either, Heavy.
 
I've known this FACT about Engel for years.
 
 

Intimidation of Journalists

Perhaps one reason for the biased reporting against Israel was Hezbollah?s intimidation of journalists. Time magazine contributor Christopher Allbritton, wrote in his blog: ?To the south, along the curve of the coast, Hezbollah is launching Katyushas, but I?m loathe to say too much about them. The Party of God has a copy of every journalist?s passport, and they?ve already hassled a number of us and threatened one.? Richard Engel from NBC news was even more clear. In discussing his reporting from Lebanon, his Hezbollah ?handlers? said: ?Look, we?re serious, we will kill you if you film these outgoing rockets.?
 
==========================================================
 
 
That piece of work has been front and center face on every NBC shill piece in support of the color revolutions as a cheerleader ever since 2003, 
 
 
I state again, he is one of those lying bastards who slants his video pieces, distorts facts, and creates a false point of view. You have to fact check clowns like him with parallel foreign reportage to make sure that he inhabits the same universe as the rest of us.  
     
As for Breitbart, he called ACORN and SEIU exactly right, didn't he?  Fairly good for a blogger in my
book to nail two of the most corrupt and criminal political organizations in the US.
 
I deal in facts, Heavy..
 
When the liars twist them, I tend to get angry
 
Like that propaganda piece of Engels crap that the truck driver tried to pass off as genuine reportage.
   
Citing Breitbart does not particularly bolster your credibility in assessing journalistic sources or methods. What's next, WND?




Your tone speaks volumes about your general mental and emotional state. Try and remember that you are an adult every once in a while. It helps to imagine that you are speaking with other adults in person. I wonder how often you sprinkle your real life interactions with gratuitous bold/italics/underline, and how often such frothing jackassery earns you a trip to the dentist. Save it for the Russia Strong children or whatever else passes for sport here on stratpage, if you can't resist the compulsion.




It is true that there are SF advisers on the ground and it is simultaneously true that the rebels are extremely poorly equipped. I thought I explained why pretty logically.



Adults do not suppress justified anger. Its mentally unhealthy.
 
Herald
 
 
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heavy    Pyschoanalysis   3/24/2011 11:34:52 PM
Vintage Herald.

Entertaining, informative, analytical; suddenly incoherent, delusional, apoplectic. Stream of consciousness bluster.

Hypothesis: noise and general nerdrage levels correlate strongly with high tide of BS.

Herald is raging pretty strongly right now, so let's take his three RNG links one at a time. You may click through his links if you'd like (and I would relink them if I knew it wouldn't break this post somehow), but this really, truly is all there is for meat:

1. 2006: Engels is asked on CNN what journalistic compromises he has to make for access to Hezbollah-controlled, war-torn, southern Lebanon. Engel describes the compromise thusly: he is taken on a tour by Hezbollah, but is threatened by them not to film their outgoing rockets. This link could possibly be more of a waste of time than the current Fox-CNN "human shields" pissing match.

2. 2010: In this clip Engel calls Ari Fleischer out on his continued message discipline of the old, discredited drumbeat: "Saddam, Osama; Saddam, Holocaust." 

Ari gulps down Bin Laden's knuckle-dragging Big Lie of a strategic premise:

Osama: "Baghdad like Mogadishu. America Weak. Hurr Hurr Durr!"

Ari: "America not weak. America Strong! Osama not right about Iraq! Also, Saddam Hitler!"

Engel (verbatim): "I'm saying this whole association that is still out there in many people's minds that Iraq was somehow associated with 9/11."

"Nearly seven in 10 Americans believe it is likely that ousted Iraqi leader Saddam Hussein was personally involved in the Sept. 11 attacks, says a poll out almost two years after the terrorists' strike against this country."
h*tp://www.usatoday.com/news/washington/2003-09-06-poll-iraq_x.htm

Ari is a PR guy and that is professional PR message discipline in action. The fact that Herald doesn't understand that reveals to me how plain little he knows of contemporary politics. That's not meant as an insult. Not everyone has seen it from the inside and recognizes it for what it is. Ari will never stop working for his old boss's image as a point of professional pride in his "craft." He will happily remain full of it forever.

3. 2011: This one is my favorite link. Herald's "one of his damned lies" link is a picture of a smiling Egyptian who has written a protest sign that says:

Thank you (in Arabic)
FACEBOOK (in English)
youth of Egypt (in Arabic)

"FACEBOOK" is in the middle in english, bright red, all caps, bold block lettering, as if Herald had scrawled it there himself in a hysterical fit of righteous indignation.

The "damned lie" is that Engel misread the sign, mistranslated it, or misinterpreted the sign designer's, big, bold, red intent, and tweeted thusly: "Egyptian protester holding sign 'thank you facebook'."

My guess is that he did not tweet 'thank you facebook youth of egypt' because that would have made no sense grammatically without elaborating uselessly further toward the 140 char limit.

In short: these three links, taken together, are a complete and total WOFTAM. Yet Herald fitfully clutches his pearls with a case of the vapors when he examines their contents.

Enough smelling salts. I'll throw in 2c about Libya here eventually.

 
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YelliChink       3/24/2011 11:59:24 PM

Citing Breitbart does not particularly bolster your credibility in assessing journalistic sources or methods. What's next, WND?



Just because Breitbart and WND are biased, it doesn't make them dishonest or inaccurate. Quite on the contrary, the ones who try to fake as impartial are usually hiding their agenda.
 
Here's some WND for you:
 
 
WARS AND RUMORS OF WARS

Soros fingerprints on Libya bombing

Leftist mastermind puts up big bucks to erase borders


Posted: March 23, 2011
8:20 pm Eastern

By Aaron Klein
© 2011 WorldNetDaily

Philanthropist billionaire George Soros is a primary funder and key proponent of the global organization that promotes the military doctrine used by the Obama administration to justify the recent airstrikes targeting the regime of Moammar Gadhafi in Libya.

The activist who founded and coined the name of the doctrine, "Responsibility to Protect," sits on several key organizations alongside Soros.

Also, the Soros-funded global group that promotes Responsibility to Protect is closely tied to Samantha Power, the National Security Council special adviser to Obama on human rights.

Power has been a champion of the doctrine and is, herself, deeply tied to the doctrine's founder.

According to reports, Power, who is married to Obama regulatory czar Cass Sunstein, was instrumental in convincing Obama to act against Libya.

The Responsibility to Protect doctrine has been described by its founders and proponents, including Soros, as promoting global governance while allowing the international community to penetrate a nation state's borders under certain conditions.


 
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heraldabc    Learn to read.   3/25/2011 12:07:34 AM
Analytical hat on.
 
First rule with Arabs and Kafirs. They LIE to us all the time. 
 
The center of your argument was the Huffpo cite. You don't even know how to make the propaganda association between the disconnecred halves of that propaganda poster he, Engel, misreported when he passed on the LIE
 
You claim Engel was right  when he said the sign said in Araibic  'Youth of Egypt' then in English  Thank You.
 
The person who corrected the idiot who defended him got it wrong, too.
 
(Resisting­... not moving)
 
It actually read closer to "Here we stand. unmoved", one of the many slogans used by the rioters (rent a mob) as a defiant challenge to the authorities when they (the mob) took over the square in Cairo. It was aimed at Mubarrak and had nothing to do with the West or its so called support for their 'cause'.
   
This is what I mean by people (in this case specific , you) not knowing what they discuss when they are duped by the big lie. As for the rest of the verbiage you wasted here? Noise.    
 
Got it at last?
 
I await with some amusement, what you think is going on in Libya. Analytical hat off.  
 
H.
 
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heavy    It's called Misdirection.   3/25/2011 12:14:16 AM
George Soros, ACORN.. evoke these buzzwords as political fodder and you simply out yourself as a Useful Idiot. I'm sorry that you have wasted precious moments of your life on these conspiracy theories, but I won't be drawn into a tinfoil hat session. There exists no standard of evidence that would shake you from your faith in these "scandals" as legitimate. It's called playing a shell game.
 
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YelliChink       3/25/2011 12:16:11 AM
 

White House: Libya Fight is Not War, It's 'Kinetic Military Action'

n a briefing on board Air Force One Wednesday, deputy national security adviser Ben Rhodes took a crack at an answer. "I think what we are doing is enforcing a resolution that has a very clear set of goals, which is protecting the Libyan people, averting a humanitarian crisis, and setting up a no-fly zone," Rhodes said. "Obviously that involves kinetic military action, particularly on the front end."

 
================================
 
WTF is "kinetic military action?"
 
 
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heavy    Herald   3/25/2011 12:32:30 AM
h*tp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2eMkth8FWno

I'm a little dismayed to see that you think you've somehow extracted enough gristle from this dead end to continue belaboring it. Know when to quit, for your own dignity's sake.

It doesn't matter in the slightest which one of us has the translation correct because Engel's tweet doesn't matter in the slightest in the first place. It was you who asserted that it did. Well, I'm afraid it doesn't.

Engel was indeed holding a rebel's toy gun in that video. Is disputing that simple fact really worth such a thrashing?
 
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