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Subject: F-35 news thread III
jessmo_24    1/12/2011 7:23:24 AM
BF-2s 1st vertical landing. *ttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VS3ngl1GcaI&feature=player_embedded NAVAIRSYSCOM 10 Jan 2011 "F-35B test aircraft BF-2 accomplishes its first vertical landing and conversion back to normal flight mode at Naval Air Station Patuxent River, Maryland. The integrated test team is testing both the STOVL and carrier variants of the F-35 for delivery to the fleet. Video courtesy Lockheed Martin."
 
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jessmo_24       3/17/2015 4:52:42 PM

Bill sweetman has concluded that stealth is on the way out.
How do western forces mitigate or stop AESA VHF equipped opponents?

1. Put a next gen jammer pod on the F-35?
2. Buy more high end F-22 class fighters.
3. Hypersonic or conventional ballistic missiles.
4. High end ucass striker, stealthy in the VHF spectrum
 
 
 
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keffler25       3/17/2015 5:46:53 PM
You aren't going to like this...  Bill Sweetman is an idiot. 
 
What he got wrong on the J-20 had a lot of people facepalming afterwards when they cited HIM as their expert. 
 
 



Bill sweetman has concluded that stealth is on the way out.

How do western forces mitigate or stop AESA VHF equipped opponents?





1. Put a next gen jammer pod on the F-35?

2. Buy more high end F-22 class fighters.

3. Hypersonic or conventional ballistic missiles.

4. High end ucass striker, stealthy in the VHF spectrum

 

 


 
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WarNerd       3/17/2015 7:35:28 PM
Bill sweetman has concluded that stealth is on the way out.
How do western forces mitigate or stop AESA VHF equipped opponents?
 
1. Put a next gen jammer pod on the F-35?
2. Buy more high end F-22 class fighters.
3. Hypersonic or conventional ballistic missiles.
4. High end ucass striker, stealthy in the VHF spectrum
A link to the article you are referencing would be useful.
 
Articles I tracked down indicate that stealth is not on its way out, just not going to be as important if certain technologies pan out.
 
As for VHF radar, there are a number of problems:
1.  It only applies for some configurations.  Nobody says which ones, either to conceal a capability or overhype it.
2.  VHF radar cannot be effectively implemented on fighter size aircraft.  The issue is the physics of antenna size vs. wavelength, no way around it.  This also applies to missile receivers, so it cannot be used for active or semi-active guidance systems.
3.  VHF radar can be implemented as a ground based radar for early warning purposes.  VHF is inherently (physics of the wavelength again) too inaccurate for a targeting radar, so command guided missiles using it are also out, unless you use extremely large warheads.
4.  VHF radar requires more power for a given return strength against a non-stealth target, so while you may have a better chance of detecting a stealth aircraft you have less chance of detecting a non-stealthy aircraft.  It also means that you have less range overall for a given power input.  This is a trade-off.
 
Sweetman indicates that he feels that IRST and sensor fusion are greater threats than VHS radar. He is also clear that if you can sufficiently degrade any sensor required in the ‘kill chain’ that stealth is still of value, like the fire control radar required for current mid to long range missile systems.
 
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keffler25       3/18/2015 10:01:57 AM
That's one of the points behind one of AESA's peculiarities that you can list under 'other abilities.'
 

The problem is that many potential adversaries, such as the Chinese and the Russians, have developed advanced digital radio frequency memory (DRFM) jammers. These jammers, which effectively memorize an incoming radar signal and repeat it back to the sender, seriously hamper the performance of friendly radars.

Worse, these new jammers essentially blind the small radars found onboard air-to-air missiles like the Raytheon AIM-120 AMRAAM, which is the primary long-range weapon for all U.S. and most allied fighter planes.

That means it could take several missile shots to kill an enemy fighter, even for an advanced stealth aircraft like the Raptor. “While exact Pk [probability of kill] numbers are classified, let’s just say that I won’t be killing these guys one for one,” the senior Air Force official said. It’s the “same issue” for earlier American fighters like the F-15, F-16, or F/A-18.

Another Air Force official with experience on the stealthy new F-35 Joint Strike Fighter agreed. “AMRAAM’s had some great upgrades over the years, but at the end of the day, it’s old technology and wasn’t really designed with today’s significant [electronic attack] in mind,” this official said.

 
 
 
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jessmo_24       3/18/2015 12:27:22 PM
1. Arnt modern versions of Amraam using data links? 2. Because of
 
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keffler25       3/18/2015 12:41:41 PM
1. With SARH built in, of course.
2. Because of what? Angle solutions > 45 degrees, not sure about that.  
3. Did not show up at all.
4. Repeater or a loop transmitter will duplicate an acquired signal The emphasis is on acquired which it will transmit back at you as a false echo.
5. Yes and no. It's a seesaw battle in that EW contest. 
1. Arnt modern versions of Amraam using data links?
2. Because of 3. I thought barracuda and ALR-94 could achive firing solutions via esm.
4. How can you count on DHRM tracking LPI emmisions?
5. Havnt F-15s been using DHRM against F-22s for awhile to no avail?

 
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jessmo_24       3/18/2015 1:09:19 PM
Bahh this server is being very strange. anyway F-15 pilots are saying DRFM jamming Means nothing versus an F-22 http://www.defenseindustrydaily.com/the-f-35s-air-to-air-capability-controversy-05089/ ??the ability to actually have that data fusion that the aeroplane has makes an incredible difference to how you perform in combat. I saw it first hand on a Red Flag mission in an F15D against a series of fifth-generation F22s. We were actually in the red air. In five engagements we never knew who had hit us and we never even saw the other aeroplane?. After that particular mission I went back and had a look at the tapes on the F22, and the difference in the situational awareness in our two cockpits was just so fundamentally different. That is the key to fifth-generation. That is where I have trouble with the APA analysis?. To me that is key: it is not only stealth; it is the combination of the EOS and the radar to be able to build a comprehensive picture. In that engagement I talked about at Nellis, in Red Flag, the ability to be in a cockpit with a God?s-eye view of what is going on in the world was such an advantage over a fourth-generation fighter ? and arguably one of the best fourth-generation fighters in existence, the F15. But even with a DRFM jamming pipe, we still had no chance in those particular engagements. And at no time did any of the performance characteristics that you are talking about have any relevance to those five engagements
 
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jessmo_24       3/18/2015 1:38:21 PM
Here is more, I dint even know aboyt the APG-81s interleaved mode. I always assumed. it could track with out the radar. 5) AN/ASQ-239 ?Barracuda?. While most aircraft carry crutch Electronic Warfare(EW) systems, the F-35?s was designed from the outset for integration, able to operate not just with other components within the aircraft such as the APG-81, it can operate with other F-35?s over MADL to perform EW operations together. The AN/ASQ-239 is an evolution of the F-22?s AN/ALR-94 which is described as the most complex and costly avionics piece on the F-22, the Barracuda has twice the reliability and is a quarter the cost of the ALR-94, as well as being able to reduce the 30 sensors on the F-22 to 10 sensors, it has demonstrated the ability to detect and jam the F-22?s radar. It?s able to precisely geo-locate emission locations hundreds of kilometers away, further then it?s radar can see and from there the APG-81 can be slaved to that data track and then detect and track the object with a very narrow beam, increasing power and detection on target while decreasing detection by other aircraft. At close range it is capable of narrowband interleaved search and track(NBILST) against aircraft which provides precise range and velocity that can then be used by a missile without need of the APG-81, allowing 360 degree targeting of aircraft. The Barracuda can refer to it?s data-banks of known emissions and identify the source vehicle or store it for future classification. Other features are false target generation and range-gate stealing, a towed RF decoy is also a part of the package as is MJU-68/B Flares, the counter measure dispenser?s can be seen from behind. https://comprehensiveinformation.wordpress.com/ To put it mildly, I would NOT want to try and beat the F-35 in the ECM arena, your playing to the planes strengths. Your better off trying to beat it with raw kinematics
 
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keffler25       3/18/2015 1:40:00 PM
The Australian air marshall you quote was politely calling Hoon and his associate Carlo Copp... IDIOTS.
 
I agree with the PILOT.
 
 
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jessmo_24       3/18/2015 2:17:46 PM
The More I look up things about this plane the more I like it. IYO 1. How does a very modest super-cruise for 150 miles at mach 1.2 affect weapons envelopes, and release? 2. I just learned that the F-35 is the 1st plane to be able to interrogate another plane behind. How does this effect the fight. 3. And Finally will this revolutionize airwar by allowing, the 1st fighter ever to do BFM at night? As I recall Night doesn't matter through das.
 
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