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Subject: F-35 news thread III
jessmo_24    1/12/2011 7:23:24 AM
BF-2s 1st vertical landing. *ttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VS3ngl1GcaI&feature=player_embedded NAVAIRSYSCOM 10 Jan 2011 "F-35B test aircraft BF-2 accomplishes its first vertical landing and conversion back to normal flight mode at Naval Air Station Patuxent River, Maryland. The integrated test team is testing both the STOVL and carrier variants of the F-35 for delivery to the fleet. Video courtesy Lockheed Martin."
 
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jessmo_24       6/8/2015 11:31:01 PM
http://foxtrotalpha.jalopnik.com/7-things-the-marines-have-to-do-to-make-the-f-35b-worth-1560672069 Keff do you believe that Marines will actually use The F-35 On the 1st day of the war? I seem to recall a Marine commander During the Iraq war complaining about tasking when the war Started, because he wanted to save his fixed wing assets For the Marines that would soon follow. It seems like a silly question until you realize that the Gator boat assets are finite. Im not sure that now that they can Play tac air with the big boys, they always will.
 
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keffler25       6/9/2015 9:30:28 AM
HR already ran one incoherent article by me and tried to use it as justification for the LCS, Jessmo. Now you produced another one for me to read?.
 
This article recycles a lot of Bill Sweetman crap about F-35 A and C compromises as a result of the B^1 and makes some rather fallacious assumptions about the lifting body overall plan-form that is the core of Spurts' own argument of why the F-35 is actually superior to the American and Russian legacy inventories.
 
I don't deny that the original F-35 was designed as a Marine jump-jet. It actually was an inside shop LockMart design study to replace the McDonald Douglas AV8B (around 1988?) when Boring embarrassed LockMart with the Super Hornet after gobbling up LockMart's prey McDonald Douglas after the A-12 Avenger disaster.     
 
The subsequent politics and corporate mismanagement aside, the F-35 B is actually the most tactically significant of the three Lightnings in  production in that it is the ONLY modern tactical supersonic super-cruise capable fighter able to operate from zero take-off rolls from unimproved spots in the battle space. This plane completes the NATO dream for an air defense area defense fighter and CAS aircraft that can operate competitively against enemy runway limited fighter-attack aircraft (albeit with reduced endurance and carriage in the air).   .    
 
Note I use the word "tactical" and not strategic? That's because the concept of operational employment brings nothing strategically new (that is planning achievable goals) to the situation. I could see that it might add operational capability (an improved ability to affect the tactical or fighting contact effort) that expands what the Harrier already represents to us, but it is not as strategic in implication as say; a viable working free electron laser complete with aiming system would be strategically to the ability to control the sea and the air and  as a means to dominate land warfare.       
 
Fundamental that way it, the F-35 B is not, and since the article author started out with that much wrong in his opening premise in his thesis because he did not understand his own argument, I'm not in any jolly mood to countenance the detailed explanation of requirements that follows that wrong initial assumption, especially when the article is festooned with additional poppywaddle technical errors.     
 
EXAMPLE: An MV-22 AWACs makes no sense  to me, given the need for tactical speed and endurance a naval AWACS requires. The E-2 Hawkeye is actually too slow in the role. I would prefer a jet, (for vibration damping, radio noise interference and on-board power generation to the radar reasons as well as the radar. mounting issues) but to suggest the Osprey is a viable AWACS radar platform shows me that Tyler Rogoway is off in cloud cuckoo land with the Sprey bunch. He cannot be taken seriously.              
 
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jessmo_24       6/9/2015 2:15:40 PM
Keffler your preaching to the choir here. I do not agree with the authors assessment that the jet is Compromised. My question is now that the Marines have The ability to play with the big boys on day 1, will they commit A few dozen or so Jets knowing that they will need them Exclusively for a Marine forcible entry? I only cited the article to highlight the very real potential of the plane. Keep in mind 1st day means tackling S-300,S-400, red air 4.5 and 5th gen fighters
 
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HR    Jessmo   6/9/2015 3:08:30 PM
If you believed that Keffler has the ability to think strategically I have news for you... he is not. This is not a very good article... the answer to your question is "it depends". The F-35 is a 5th generation aircraft where the Harrier while very good and for that reason a very long lived and successful type it is 1960's vintage with all the limitations that come with that. Being a 5th generation aircraft means that the F-35 can protect the amphibs in a way the Harrier could not... it is just so much of a better fighter. Plus it can enter contested airspace where the Harrier would have been a sitting duck. So that is it. Both of these peculiarities means that our Amphibs can now punch like a pocket carrier... and not rely on a full sized nuclear carrier for air support, etc. This aircraft is a force multiplier that allows the USA Navy to do so much more than it is doing now.
 
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HR    Jessmo   6/9/2015 3:26:13 PM
I want to make a separate post about the use of a San Anton for F-35B. I do not believe it practical to use this ship for anything but to ferry the aircraft on a very long voyage if that would be necessary or for emergency landings if the aircraft is damaged. But to use the ship as a "lily-pad" to then re-fuel it as soon as it takes off makes no sense in my mind.
 
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keffler25       6/9/2015 8:15:57 PM
Be quiet. Adults are in discussion.  
 
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keffler25       6/9/2015 8:31:27 PM
Keffler you're preaching to the choir here. I do not agree with the authors assessment that the jet is Compromised. My question is now that the Marines have The ability to play with the big boys on day 1, will they commit A few dozen or so Jets knowing that they will need them Exclusively for a Marine forcible entry? I only cited the article to highlight the very real potential of the plane. Keep in mind 1st day means tackling S-300,S-400, red air 4.5 and 5th gen fighters
 
The Marines are likely to only obtain 300 or so aircraft   and that is an optimistic assessment. While that is almost the current strength of the entire RAF or AdA, you must remember that the plane (the F-36 B) is not the kind of platform that was designed for fleet air defense or for intrusion and strike.such as the F-35 A and C. It lacks the overall carriage and endurance.to carry the air war into an enemy country's deep interior. So the deep raid and the independent naval air campaign that the article author (he argues refueling) is nonsensical.
 
If the F-35 B is operated at all in the 'fleet role' it will be as an adjunct to the main Navy force of F-35 Cs, FA-18s and QA-47s, not as a primary platform. Its limitations in carriage and endurance will see it used either as fleet perimeter CAS or as an inner perimeter CAP interceptor, not as the deep striker.
 
Besides the Marines are jealous of their CAS assets, being reluctant to allow the Navy to borrow even helicopter gunships to go on bogjammer hunts.   
 
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jessmo_24       6/10/2015 12:23:39 AM


Keffler you're preaching to the choir here. I do not agree with the authors assessment that the jet is Compromised. My question is now that the Marines have The ability to play with the big boys on day 1, will they commit A few dozen or so Jets knowing that they will need them Exclusively for a Marine forcible entry? I only cited the article to highlight the very real potential of the plane. Keep in mind 1st day means tackling S-300,S-400, red air 4.5 and 5th gen fighters

 


The Marines are likely to only obtain 300 or so aircraft   and that is an optimistic assessment. While that is almost the current strength of the entire RAF or AdA, you must remember that the plane (the F-36 B) is not the kind of platform that was designed for fleet air defense or for intrusion and strike.such as the F-35 A and C. It lacks the overall carriage and endurance.to carry the air war into an enemy country's deep interior. So the deep raid and the independent naval air campaign that the article author (he argues refueling) is nonsensical.

 

If the F-35 B is operated at all in the 'fleet role' it will be as an adjunct to the main Navy force of F-35 Cs, FA-18s and QA-47s, not as a primary platform. Its limitations in carriage and endurance will see it used either as fleet perimeter CAS or as an inner perimeter CAP interceptor, not as the deep striker.

 

Besides the Marines are jealous of their CAS assets, being reluctant to allow the Navy to borrow even helicopter gunships to go on bogjammer hunts.   


So, I did make the right assumtion ( que joke about broken clocks being correct twice) about marines not coming out to play. The Gator boat also will limit any ideas about surging Tac air from a Gator boat. The marines would also be wise to keep a number of A-V8s operational. You dont need a next gen stealthy fighter, ALL of the time. Not when your  to bomb Mud huts, show the flag, or escort the  rescue of an  the occasional F-15 guy whos poor plane fell apart over the ISIS calipahte. Good discussion sir.
 
 
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jessmo_24       6/10/2015 12:57:26 AM
Navy Air Boss: F-35C Advanced Sensors, Situational Awareness a ‘Game-Changer’
09 Jun 2015 Gidget Fuentes

"NORTH ISLAND NAVAL AIR STATION, Coronado, Calif. – The Navy’s top aviator checked out a simulator for its next-generation fighter jet, the F-35C Lightning II Joint Strike Fighter (JSF), on Monday and lauded its advanced capabilities that will give it a leg up compared to legacy strike aircraft.

A “game-changer,” said Vice Adm. Mike Shoemaker, commander of Naval Air Forces, is the ability for the F-35 Joint Strike Fighter to “suck in all that information” from various sensors and fuse it together to give pilots information in “a great, clear picture of who’s good and who’s bad.”...

...Shoemaker, who took command of the air fleet in January, acknowledged the Navy is seen as “soft” on the F-35 and “behind” [SOOoooo BEhindddd....] the Air Force and the Marine Corps – the latter expects to reach the critical initial operational capability (IOC) declaration this summer – in getting the jet into the fleet. Funding lags have delayed delivery in sufficient numbers, he said. But the service is on track to get its carrier version of the JSF into its air wings with its IOC targeted for 2018, he said.

Officials describe the jet’s fifth-generation platform as a jump in capability from current tactical aircraft the Navy flies. The “all-sensor fusion” refers to advanced suites of integrated electronics some refer to as the “brains” of the aircraft, particularly when paired up with the pilot’s helmet-mounted display and networked with the rest of the strike group and joint force. That, Shoemaker said, “is probably the most critical capability it delivers.”

“We’ve really have to solve a long-range combat ID problem,” he said, in “both air-to-air and air-to-surface – and this platform will bring that long-rage ID capability and then share that information.”...

...Compared to Boeing’s F/A-18E-F Super Hornet, “it’s very similar, from a skill-set perspective,” he said. “It’ll be fairly similar and easy to transition from something like a Super Hornet.”

Mark Johnson, a Lockheed Martin spokesman, noted “the computers do so much more of the flying now that the pilot has an opportunity to be really more of a tactician in the air.”

More refined information, such as identifying a particular enemy tank on the ground rather than just seeing “something” in the blip, Johnson said, “is a big deal. It is one of the tools in this particular aircraft that the people who fly it talk about the ‘big epiphany.’”...
Wait a sec So this Thing can Id vehicle types?
 
More at the jump.
 
 
 
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jessmo_24       6/10/2015 2:33:23 AM
Keffler, I want to thank you for being so kind to the underpriviliged  and ignorant. If you can bear 1 more question. I will humbly leave your presence.
 
While we are on the subject of how the F-35 will be operated, Would you put this plane in a austere basing situation?
Lets imagine for a 2nd that a mean  nasty Near peer starts Lobbing missile all over the pacific.
If you can find an island nation willing to Host the planes in auster highway conditions, would you do it?
Would RED forces tac-air, and Military targeting be seriously complicated, by using said roads, and tunnel net works?
maybe a freeway underpass here, or a Prepared road there? If you could Deny them Sat feed, and airborne photo recon,
Could you really Pull an air born equivilant, of the 300 spartan soilders that held off the persian army.
Only is this case 24-40 or so jets. I could imagine planes waiting under shelters tents or underpasses in alert 5 status.
Caps taking off at times with full internal and extternal missile loads. Jumping on In coming Su-27s or simply locking  and firing enough to Mission kill the heavy bomb loaded ones. If this is a bad idea, please correct me. And show me how in a war game the red force would stop this.
 I await your answer with baited breath.
 
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