Military History | How To Make War | Wars Around the World Rules of Use How to Behave on an Internet Forum
Fighters, Bombers and Recon Discussion Board
   Return to Topic Page
Subject: F-35 news thread III
jessmo_24    1/12/2011 7:23:24 AM
BF-2s 1st vertical landing. *ttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VS3ngl1GcaI&feature=player_embedded NAVAIRSYSCOM 10 Jan 2011 "F-35B test aircraft BF-2 accomplishes its first vertical landing and conversion back to normal flight mode at Naval Air Station Patuxent River, Maryland. The integrated test team is testing both the STOVL and carrier variants of the F-35 for delivery to the fleet. Video courtesy Lockheed Martin."
 
Quote    Reply

Show Only Poster Name and Title     Newest to Oldest
Pages: PREV  1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43   NEXT
jessmo_24       5/9/2015 12:48:54 AM
 
India Outlines New Carrier Ambitions
The Indian Navy will present a report on the configuration options for the second indigenous Indian Aircraft Carrier (IAC-2) to the Ministry of Defense next month. At a recent seminar on the country’s naval aviation, it became clear that the vessel will likely be in the 65,000 ton class. It could be equipped with American aircraft – or a combination that might include the naval version of the French Rafale fighter. “The fighters must be transformational. We must decide on the aircraft first, and this choice must determine the design of the carrier and its deck,” said an official...
 
Hmm I wonder what american type would  be selected, that would be a game changer?
 
Quote    Reply

keffler25       5/9/2015 3:01:22 AM
They got  it wrong. You don't design the carrier to the specific plane. You design the carrier the carrier to a class of expected aircraft performance parameters..    
 
Quote    Reply

jessmo_24       5/9/2015 4:59:28 AM
Keffler bear with me in a little speculation just for fun.
I cant wait to see the plane in BFM so Im going to throw darts.
Things we know about the F-35A In BFM
 
 
50+ degrees AOA
Hobs capable
10K more alt than a F-16
Higher cruise speed than F-16
Able to super cruise at mach 1.2 for 150 miles
 
I think we have enough data to make semi educated guesses, for entertainments sake (becasue im at work and bored)
How do you believe this plane will stack up to know performers?
 
Vs F-16  WVR: Hobs, Greater AOA T2W, I dont think there is a contest here unless its a late block F-16 with Hobs
Vs F-16  BVR: No contest Im not sure a F-16 would know why they died.
Advantage F-35
 
Vs all Su-27 varients: WVR High AOA Hobs, tactics (Ie wait for a Su-27 to go post stall) Hobs is the main advantage here I think a smart F-35 driver would approach the merge out of sensor view.
BVR : Might have to employ advanced jamming tech Due to fancy Russian VHF tactics, either way Su-27 dies
Advantage F-35
 
Vs F-22 WVR: Advanced jamming before the merge and a Hobs shot is the only chance
BVR:?? It has been reported that the F-35 detected and jammed the F-22s radar This is the only chance.
Advantage F-22
 
Vs Typhoons WVR: Hobs, Greater AOA WVR is more of a case these days on who can get the fastest Hobs shot off
Vs Typhooon BVR: F-35 Pushes up to Mach 1.2 fires game over
WVR its a tie BVR its the F-35
 
Vs Rafael WVR: Hobs, Greater AOA WVR is more of a case these days on who can get the fastest Hobs shot off [I cant recall is Mica is HObs capable or if rafael uses a helmet display]
Vs Rafale BVR: F-35 Pushes up to Mach 1.2 fires game over
WVR its a tie BVR its the F-35
 
Vs Griffen WVR: Hobs, Greater AOA T2W, I dont think there is a contest here The F-35s waay superior fuel load = Tons More AB
Vs Griffen  BVR: No contest Im not sure a Griffen would know why they died
 
Im Just speculating as to what this plane might due in BFM tactics Note: any plane employing a advanced Hobs system makes going to the merge these days very dangerous Discuss my rapant speculations and arm chair expertise ;-)
 
Quote    Reply

jessmo_24       5/9/2015 5:13:42 AM

They got  it wrong. You don't design the carrier to the specific plane. You design the carrier the carrier to a class of expected aircraft performance parameters..    

Ive speculated before India shoudl do away with all of the various types they are using and narrow it down to 3 types
High end heavy: Su-30
 
Medium and strike: F-35A + naval B
 
and Low end : that Delta thing they just built
 
narrowing down the maintenance would help them alot
 
Right now to put things mildly Indias procurment is a steaming collection of monkey cupulation
 
 
Quote    Reply

keffler25       5/9/2015 12:42:57 PM
Not bad... not a bad analysis at all. Someone's been reading Flight Global and F-16 net.
 
The mechanical advantages in air combat, plane group versus plane group (sections or flights--> everyone professional breaks down to pairs or fours in REAL air combat whether they fight enemy counter-air or surface based anti-aircraft defenses ) are transitory and you cover that aspect well.
 
I tend to think that situational awareness in the Human or the artificial intelligence flying the bird or weapon is the primary factor with gee whiz technology being a secondary, because the bells and whistles will pack it in just when you need them. Murphy is best seen in air combat when he turns the gremlins loose in a brand new untried plane.   
 
That means at some point the F-35 pilots will have to dump fuel and bombs to gain maneuver parity and rely on Sidewinder, the gun, and their eyes, electronic and HUMAN .  You can expect Sukhois to be close matches if the enemy pilots are any good, and Typhoons to be BETTER in such a type angle fight..    
 
The F-35 was not intended to be an angle fighter. It is a (rather maneuverable) bomb truck and missile thrower. It's best chance is first look, first shot, then run like hell.      
 

Keffler bear with me in a little speculation just for fun.

I cant wait to see the plane in BFM so Im going to throw darts.

Things we know about the F-35A In BFM

 


 

50+ degrees AOA

Hobs capable

10K more alt than a F-16

Higher cruise speed than F-16

Able to super cruise at mach 1.2 for 150 miles


 

I think we have enough data to make semi educated guesses, for entertainments sake (becasue im at work and bored)

How do you believe this plane will stack up to know performers?

 

Vs F-16  WVR: Hobs, Greater AOA T2W, I dont think there is a contest here unless its a late block F-16 with Hobs

Vs F-16  BVR: No contest Im not sure a F-16 would know why they died.

Advantage F-35

 

Vs all Su-27 varients: WVR High AOA Hobs, tactics (Ie wait for a Su-27 to go post stall) Hobs is the main advantage here I think a smart F-35 driver would approach the merge out of sensor view.

BVR : Might have to employ advanced jamming tech Due to fancy Russian VHF tactics, either way Su-27 dies

Advantage F-35

 

Vs F-22 WVR: Advanced jamming before the merge and a Hobs shot is the only chance

BVR:?? It has been reported that the F-35 detected and jammed the F-22s radar This is the only chance.

Advantage F-22

 

Vs Typhoons WVR: Hobs, Greater AOA WVR is more of a case these days on who can get the fastest Hobs shot off

Vs Typhooon BVR: F-35 Pushes up to Mach 1.2 fires game over

WVR its a tie BVR its the F-35

 

Vs Rafael WVR: Hobs, Greater AOA WVR is more of a case these days on who can get the fastest Hobs shot off [I cant recall is Mica is HObs capable or if rafael uses a helmet display]

Vs Rafale BVR: F-35 Pushes up to Mach 1.2 fires game over




WVR its a tie BVR its the F-35

 

Vs Griffen WVR: Hobs, Greater AOA T2W, I dont think there is a contest here The F-35s waay superior fuel load = Tons More AB

Vs Griffen  BVR: No contest Im not sure a Griffen would know why they died

 

Im Just speculating as to what this plane might due in BFM tactics Note: any plane employing a advanced Hobs system makes going to the merge these days very dangerous Discuss my rapant speculations and arm chair expertise ;-)


 
Quote    Reply

jessmo_24       5/9/2015 4:19:02 PM
What about the high AOA? And how do you turn Alot of extra gas into energy?
 
Quote    Reply

keffler25       5/9/2015 4:40:22 PM
High angle of attack bleeds speed. Not a good thing in an angle fight or a missile/bomb throw unless you climb into it in a smooth parabola in the lift segment of the four influences on an aerodynamic vehicle.  Gas into energy? Hotter core engine temperature.  
 
Quote    Reply

HR    jessmo   5/9/2015 5:26:49 PM
On the air superiority role the F-35 will carry a lot less fuel than in an attack role. Say half of the maximum fuel load. Weighting less makes it a faster and more maneuverable aircraft IF it comes to a turning fight.
 
Quote    Reply

keffler25       5/9/2015 7:46:29 PM
Lol.
 
Quote    Reply

jessmo_24       5/10/2015 12:53:05 AM
If I have the option of either dumping the fuel or going AB. Ill likely light the burner. @ keffler the superbug seems to do pretty well at low speed High aoa. If Im stealthy why would I merge nose on any way? why fly right into sensor range. I think we shoudl start thinking about.
 
1. In the future the standard combad A2A load will be 4-6 types Of amraam or 12 Cuda.
 
2. If I have only Amramm then Im sniping, and will likely only merge for a guns kill (winchester)
 
3. If Im out of missiles, Im going to attempt to approach the enemy plane at an angle his radar cant see me in when close.
 
4. I cant find the article, but I beleive F-22 have snuck up before on F-16 for gun kills
 
5. Flying right into his sensors when I have less than 200 rounds left might not be the smartest thing I can do with my 100 mill jet.
 
Quote    Reply



 Latest
 News
 
 Most
 Read
 
 Most
 Commented
 Hot
 Topics