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Subject: Magic Mossies
Aussiegunneragain    7/11/2010 9:01:10 AM
There was a thread on here a few years ago put up by a fellow named Shooter, who was trying to make the argument that the Dehavilland Mosquito was a strategically insignificant aircraft which should never have been produced for the RAF, because it represented a waste of engines which could have better been used in Avro Lancasters. Shooter, an American, had a hobby of trying to diss any non-American type that had an excellent reputation (the Spitfire was another favourite target) and most people here told him he was being a clown with that being the end of it. However, the thread has stuck in the back of my mind and made me wonder whether in fact the Mossie, despite its widespread usage in a variety of roles, was in fact underutilised in the daylight strategic bombing role? It did perform some very important low level raids such as the daylight raid on the Phillips radio works (along with Ventura's and Bostons - far less Mossies were shot down)in Holland during Operation Oyster. However, I can't find many references to the Mossie being used for the sort of regular high altitude daylight strategic bombing missions that the B-17 and other USAF daylight heavies conducted. Consider its characteristics: -It could carry 4 x 500lb bombs all the way to Berlin which meant that you needed three mossies to carry a slightly larger warload than one B-17 did, which upon this basis meant more engine per lb of bomb in the Mossie. -However, the Mossie was hard to catch and was more survivable than the Heavies. The latter only really became viable with the addition of long-range escort fighters, something that the mossie could have done without. -It only required two crew versus ten on a B-17. Without intending to be critical of the USAF daylight heavies, because they were one of the strategically vital assets in winning WW2, I am wondering whether had the RAF used the Mossie in the role at the expense of night bombing operations in Lancasters? I have read accounts that suggest that the later were not really directly successful in shutting down German production, with the main contribution being that they forced the Germans to provide 24/7 air defence. If they had used Mossies more in the daylight precision role is it possible that the impact that the fighter-escorted USAF bombers had on German production might have been bought forward by a year or so, helping to end the War earlier? Another idea that I have is that if Reich fighter defences had started to get too tough for unescorted Merlin powered Mossies on strategic daylight missions, that they could have built the Griffon or Sabre powered versions that never happenned to keep the speed advantage over the FW-190? Up-engined Fighter versions of the Mossie would also have probably had sufficient performance to provide escort and fighter sweep duties in Germany in order to provide the bombers with even more protection. Thoughts? (PS, in case anybody hasn't worked it out the Mossie is my favourite military aircraft and my second favourite aircraft after the Supermarine S-6B ... so some bias might show through :-). I do think it has to rate as one of the best all round aircraft of all time based on its merits alone).
 
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45-Shooter       4/18/2013 10:44:50 PM

I laugh at you. In order to roll a plane. the airlerons either increase or decrease lift. Since most, but not all aileron designs do both at the same time, one lifting and the other depressing, I think this first sentence is just a bit crude? in tandem wings A tandem wing is a plane with two complete wings, one in front of the other in "Tandem"! in opposite force vectors. ??? If you could please explain this entire sentence to remove strange ideas? Elevators PUSH together down or up as they disrupt air flow. Exactly as I stated several posts above. Elevons can do EITHER Or both at the same time, also as I wrote several posts back. 











 
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oldbutnotwise       4/19/2013 3:29:54 AM
you claim to understand this subject but make so many basic mistakes, it is being to look like need to go back to your book and actually learn what they are teaching
 
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Maratabc       4/19/2013 9:20:48 AM

 
But of course I forget, that this one called Shooter, does not know how wings work, how propellers work, how torque works, how aircraft work. 
 
 
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45-Shooter    Maratabc   4/20/2013 4:29:24 PM

But of course I forget, that this one called Shooter, does not know how wings work, how propellers work, how torque works, how aircraft work. 
Of course I know how all of those things work and more importantly how and why they relate to aircraft. Did you know that there are several different theories as to both why and how air foils and propellers work? Finite element theory and momentum theory, and that while their mechanics and formula differ, they both give perfectly correct answers?
My question to you, is; can you explain the difference between torque effects and prop effects that hurt pointability?
 
Just as an aside, why have you not answered any of my many questions over the course of this argument?
PS. Now that we have the Marat thing out of the way, what does the abc tag at the end mean, or signify?

 
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Maratabc       4/20/2013 5:38:55 PM
I do not answer utter nonsense. Furthermore based on your  utter ignorance on Marat...
He was the Ben Franklin of the French Revolution...
 
.... and certainly knew more about OPTICS than you do. The WORM FORMULA... that is priceless....
 
Ahahahahaha!
 
What about angle of aspect, one called shooter? comparison to known background and horizon line?
 
Ignorant one... I laugh at you.
 

But of course I forget, that this one called Shooter, does not know how wings work, how propellers work, how torque works, how aircraft work. 

Of course I know how all of those things work and more importantly how and why they relate to aircraft. Did you know that there are several different theories as to both why and how air foils and propellers work? Finite element theory and momentum theory, and that while their mechanics and formula differ, they both give perfectly correct answers?
My question to you, is; can you explain the difference between torque effects and prop effects that hurt pointability?
 

Just as an aside, why have you not answered any of my many questions over the course of this argument?
PS. Now that we have the Marat thing out of the way, what does the abc tag at the end mean, or signify?
 
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45-Shooter       4/22/2013 11:21:59 PM

I do not answer utter nonsense. Furthermore based on your  utter ignorance on Marat...
 
He was the Ben Franklin of the French Revolution...
He could not have been the Ben Franklin of France because Franklin was a good and kind man who did not exhort his fellow citizens to murder each other for their political beliefs.
 
.... and certainly knew more about OPTICS than you do. The WORM FORMULA... that is priceless.... 
Nice link that proves my point! 
What about angle of aspect, one called shooter? comparison to known background and horizon line?
As it relates to angle off, or aspect angle of the shooter, or target? 

  
    My question to you, is; can you explain the difference between torque effects and prop effects that hurt pointability?
    Just as an aside, why have you not answered any of my many questions over the course of this argument?
 
PS. Now that we have the Marat thing out of the way, what does the abc tag at the end mean, or signify?

PPS. Now that we have that Marat thing out of the way, what does the abc tag after marat mean?
 
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Maratabc       4/23/2013 12:48:39 AM
Foolish one.

http://wiki.answers.com/Q/How_did_Ben_Franklin_gain_people%27s_cooperation

Why Ben Franklin? Because of all the Founding Fathers, he's the one most responsible for our financial prosperity. He was America's first financial guru, and wrote the first successful "self improvement" book (his autobiography). Business luminaries from Andrew Carnegie toWarren Buffett have sworn by Franklin's good counsel.
Ben Franklin succeeded like no other. He built a fortune from scratch and is the only Founding Father to make the Wealthy 100, the wealthiest Americans of all time. One historian calls him "the most versatile genius in all history." More than Adams, Jefferson or Washington, Ben Franklin improved the daily lives of citizens with his Franklin stove, lightning rod, bifocals and Poor Richard's Almanac.
Politically, Franklin should be called the "co-father" of the nation. Washington won the war at home, but Franklin won the war abroad. Without Franklin's brilliant diplomacy, the French would never have provided the military and financial aid -- more than $1 billion! -- essential to achieve American independence from the British. (In fact, Franklin's fundraising was so successful that the French government went bankrupt a few years later and caused the French Revolution!)

Ben Franklin also lived longer than any of his founders to the glorious age of 84. He continued to influence all Americans after he died in 1790, with the publication of his famed memoirs, the most popular autobiography ever written, and the nation's first "self-help" book, The Way to Wealth.


 
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45-Shooter       4/25/2013 12:16:15 AM

Ben Franklin succeeded like no other. He built a fortune from scratch and is the only Founding Father to make the Wealthy 100, the wealthiest Americans of all time. One historian calls him "the most versatile genius in all history." More than Adams, Jefferson or Washington, Ben Franklin improved the daily lives of citizens with his Franklin stove, lightning rod, bifocals and Poor Richard's Almanac.
Politically, Franklin should be called the "co-father" of the nation. Washington won the war at home, but Franklin won the war abroad. Without Franklin's brilliant diplomacy, the French would never have provided the military and financial aid -- more than $1 billion! -- essential to achieve American independence from the British. (In fact, Franklin's fundraising was so successful that the French government went bankrupt a few years later and caused the French Revolution!)

Ben Franklin also lived longer than any of his founders to the glorious age of 84. He continued to influence all Americans after he died in 1790, with the publication of his famed memoirs, the most popular autobiography ever written, and the nation's first "self-help" book, The Way to Wealth.


Now that we have the Marat thing out of the way, what does the ABC tag at the end mean? I mean in where ever you are from, because I know what it means here?

 
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