The Strategypage is a comprehensive summary of military news and affairs.
 News As History - February 9, 2010




New Strategy - Wargames at Discount Prices
1.Modern Air Power: War Over the Middle East
2.Commander: Napoleon at War
3.Close Combat: Watch am Rhein
4.Gallic Wars
5.Fast Action Battle: The Bulge

100+ Computer and Board games all with free shipping.
 
 
 
Military History | How To Make War | Wars Around the World Rules of Use
How to Behave on an Internet Forum
Fighters, Bombers and Recon Discussion Board
Sign In   Return to Topic Page
Subject: Japan gearing up to acquire F-35 fighters
maruben    11/22/2009 8:52:52 PM
Japan gearing up to acquire F-35 fighters


Stealth jets would replace aging F-4 fleet
Kyodo News
The Defense Ministry is making arrangements to select the F-35 as Japan's next mainstay fighter jet, sources at the ministry and the Self-Defense Forces said Sunday.


Upgrade: The F-35 fighter is a next-generation jet with radar-evading capabilities. KYODO / LOCKHEED MARTIN CORP.
The ministry will embark on the full acquisition process in December and prepare to make budgetary requests for the stealth plane in the fiscal 2011 budget, the sources said.

The ministry is looking to buy 40 of the next-generation jets, which can evade radar and are estimated to cost about ¥9 billion each.

The move apparently means priority has been put on strengthening air-defense capabilities as neighboring China makes efforts to enhance its air force by developing its own next-generation aircraft, analysts said.

The ministry, however, may postpone budget requests for the F-35 until fiscal 2012, due to a view in the government that a contract should not be concluded before the jet's actual capabilities can be confirmed. The F-35 is set to be deployed in the mid-2010s.

The F-35 is being jointly developed by the United States, Britain, Australia and other countries. Japan is not participating because doing so would conflict with its principle of banning weapons and arms-technology exports.

Japan initially wanted to acquire the U.S. F-22 stealth jet to replace its aging collection of F-4EJ fighters, which are still used alongside F-15s and other planes, but the United States prohibits the export of the F-22, and plans to halt production have already been announced.

Japan passed on other models, such as the U.S. F/A-18 and F-15FX and the Eurofighter, which is made by a consortium of European manufacturers.

The plan to acquire the F-35 is likely to be incorporated in new defense policy guidelines and a medium-term defense buildup plan to be adopted in December 2010.

The government led by the Democratic Party of Japan decided in October to delay its adoption by a year, partly to reflect the policies of its coalition partners.

 
Quote    Reply

Email Me When A New Comment Is Made
Show Only Poster Name and Title     Sort in Reverse Order Posted
Pages: 1 2 3   NEXT
Hamilcar       11/23/2009 4:53:54 AM
Any idea how the internal politics will sort out and how long it will take for the usual work share for Japanese domestic production (as required by the national law) to be negotiated before the buy in to the consortium is arranged?
 
 
 
Quote    Reply

StevoJH       11/23/2009 5:58:57 AM

Any idea how the internal politics will sort out and how long it will take for the usual work share for Japanese domestic production (as required by the national law) to be negotiated before the buy in to the consortium is arranged?

 

 

Isnt all the workshare already allocated?
 
Quote    Reply

Hamilcar    Jet engines?   11/23/2009 7:00:31 AM
For the Japanese, this might be a home build issue. They could license and home build the Rolls Royce/GE for their version like they did the F-110. I don't know for sure about avionics, either, as much US avionics is actually outsourced to Consortium members. (Britain, Italy, and Australia for some of it.) Japan may insist on an existing US chunk proffered to her to make. Even Turkey has a local piece of the plane. Japan is bound to try to buy in, hence my question about Japanese negotiations.
 
Money talks and LockMart needs cash.      
 
Quote    Reply

gf0012-aust       11/23/2009 7:25:30 AM
Isnt all the workshare already allocated?
there's various allocations.  some work within the initial consortium is international fleet based for all extant and future production, some is fleet based for the consortium.  the smart players went in early and secured "all fleet for ever amen" etc... on particular components.  eg its impossible for others to seek entire production in their own country as some elements of that work are already "owned" by others.  eg if your country was only buying 24 then you could hardly negotiate to get an "all of fleet for ever amen" build right etc..... eg the canucks moved early and did well, as did the danes.  some australian companies did well, others spent more time talking than negotiating and wondered why they ended up with less work etc...
there would still be the opportunity to pick up work outside 8.3 allocations.
a buy of 40 aircraft is hardly a strong card hand though - esp when you look at what other consortium members are lined up for.  I'd suspect that they'd have to nominate 40+nn+nn to have any clout - or to have any chance of securing build contracts like canada etc....
 
Quote    Reply

SlowMan       11/23/2009 9:21:37 AM
@ Hamilcar 

> the usual work share for Japanese domestic production

There is no usual Japanese license production; not even the likes of UK could license produce F-35. Japanese rightwingers are singing the demise of Japanese fighter parts industry with this announcement, and see this as Hatoyama's attempt to weaken Japanese national defense and please the Chinese. F-3 ShinShin? Where are they going to build parts for it when all the parts makers go out of business in the next couple of years?
 
Quote    Reply

Hamilcar    Never learn, do you?   11/23/2009 10:29:03 AM

@ Hamilcar 



> the usual work share for Japanese domestic production

There is no usual Japanese license production; not even the likes of UK could license produce F-35. Japanese rightwingers are singing the demise of Japanese fighter parts industry with this announcement, and see this as Hatoyama's attempt to weaken Japanese national defense and please the Chinese. F-3 ShinShin? Where are they going to build parts for it when all the parts makers go out of business in the next couple of years?
 
quote:
 
"IHI is the premier manufacturer of jet engines in Japan with a 60~70% share of the market. The Company is the primary contractor for aircraft engines used by Ministry of Defense, and participates in international cooperative projects that develop large-to-small engines for civilian aircraft. IHI also supplies the primary modules and parts for a variety of aircraft engines, and provides extensive engine maintenance and repair services based on its technological strength as an engine manufacturer. The reputation of IHI's engine maintenance center, for example, is steadily gaining in Asian markets. In response to the necessity for eco-friendly engines and heightened corporate responsibility, IHI is now carrying out R&D on various next generation engines based on the most advanced technologies."
 
 
Quote:
 
The F-2 is a close support fighter completed with Japan-U.S. cooperation and superior technology, as the model succeeding the F-1. MHI is the primary contractor. As for the wings, with the introduction of an integral structure, using composite material and maximizing the wingspan, there is better maneuvering capability. Also, with the use of various high tech materials and structural technology, we have succeeded in making the wings lighter.

In avionics, the newest technological domestic oriented equipment has been installed, such as integrated electronic warfare system, and an on-board computer.
Also, the Control Configured Vehicle (CCV) and Stealth characteristics are improved, using radio wave absorption materials, and equipping the engine with more thrust to increase capability in take-offs and landings.

October 1995 : The first flight of F-2 prototype aircraft.
March 1996 : The delivery of the first prototype aircraft.
MHI has manufactured 61 aircraft including prototype aircraft by March 2005.

Main specifications
Width 11.1m
Length 15.5m
Height 5.0m
Defence Aircraft & Aeroengine

Headquarters: Aerospace Headquarters
Works: Nagoya Aerospace Systems Works 
 
As a significant but overlooked event with the F-2 is this:
 
 
Obvious the J/APG-1 was/is not considered a great radar when it came out with the F-2, BUT it was/is a Japanese developed AESA radar that worked at a time when AESA was still somewhat new to the US. They also equipped the bird with their own FLIR, which is overlooked.
 
That is why the XP-1  program is so interesting. In addition to another Japanese developed AESA, the US will be learning from the Japanese whether fiber optic directed flight control actuators work and whether the Canadian ASW systems the Japanese licensed and will use also work. The P-8 depends a lot on what mistakes the Japanese make and correct.        
 

To put it kindly, you don't have a clue. That is why I dismiss you as noise. 
 
 
Quote    Reply

Hamilcar    Never learn, do you?   11/23/2009 10:32:33 AM
 
Bad link repaired.
 
Quote    Reply

SlowMan       11/23/2009 10:36:36 AM
@ Hamilcar
 
You don't understand that F-35 is not available for license production. This was the biggest argument against F-35 selection, and now the Japanse rightwingers and aerospace industry's worst fear has been realized.

As for F-2, F-2 is not an F-16, it is physically different from F-16. F-35 that Japan's importing via FMS is an F-35, either fully assembled in fly-away condition or shipped to Japan as kit, depending on which option Japan goes for. You cannot compare F-2 to F-35.
 
Quote    Reply

Hamilcar       11/23/2009 11:20:29 AM
You are a waste of time.
 
Is that CLEAR?
 
Quote    Reply

StevoJH       11/23/2009 11:26:55 AM

As for F-2, F-2 is not an F-16, it is physically different from F-16. F-35 that Japan's importing via FMS is an F-35, either fully assembled in fly-away condition or shipped to Japan as kit, depending on which option Japan goes for. You cannot compare F-2 to F-35.

As I understand it, there will be two assembly lines for the F-35. One in Italy and One in the US. If there was going to be an Asian Assembly line it would most likely be in Australia because:
 
1) We are a member of the consortium
2) We are ordering a larger number then anyone else in the region
 
With an order of 40 Aircraft,  Japan is neither.
 
Quote    Reply

SlowMan       11/23/2009 11:46:16 AM
@ Hamilcar

> You are a waste of time.

Actually it is you who are a waste of EVERYONE's time here.

@ StevoJH

> If there was going to be an Asian Assembly line it would most likely be in Australia

The "Final Assembly & Check" plant, which is comparable to an automotive body shop, costs around $800 million. Australia isn't willing to pay this sum.

> With an order of 40 Aircraft,  Japan is neither.

Japan hosts US Pacific forces, which will obviously have hundreds of F-35s stationed in Japan. This "Final Assembly & Check" plant also doubles as maintenance center, so there is a motivation for the US to put a "Final Assembly & Check" plant in Japan.
 
Quote    Reply

Hamilcar       11/23/2009 12:00:30 PM


As I understand it, there will be two assembly lines for the F-35. One in Italy and One in the US. If there was going to be an Asian Assembly line it would most likely be in Australia because:

1) We are a member of the consortium

2) We are ordering a larger number then anyone else in the region

With an order of 40 Aircraft,  Japan is neither.


That does not mean that they will not be a part of the avionics at some point. They will have to be as they transition to their own AAM-3 and AAM-4 as well as the AAM-5.  Then there is ASM-1, 2, and (in development) XASM-3. All of those weapons have to be coded and carried. Its very apparent that the JSDF asserts indigenous manufacture and supply. Has been for at least two decades. 
 
And as I stated, they have tried to build their own jet engines always as soon as they could license and design.. 
 
 
Quote    Reply

SlowMan       11/23/2009 12:09:32 PM
@ Hamilcar

> They will have to be as they transition to their own AAM-3 and AAM-4 as well as the AAM-5.

The arrangement is that foreign client pays Lockheed Martin to integrate their weapons into F-35. Source code is off-limit to foreign clients.

> Then there is ASM-1, 2, and (in development) XASM-3. All of those weapons have to be coded and carried.

By Lockheed Martin fore a fee of $$$$$$$$$, of course.

> Its very apparent that the JSDF asserts indigenous manufacture and supply.

If they did, then they would have gone for Typhoon or Boeing options.

In reality, one of Hatoyama's reform agenda is a move away from license production to lower procurement cost, and you are seeing the effect.
 
Quote    Reply

Hamilcar       11/23/2009 12:14:05 PM

@ Hamilcar



> They will have to be as they transition to their own AAM-3 and AAM-4 as well as the AAM-5.



The arrangement is that foreign client pays Lockheed Martin to integrate their weapons into F-35. Source code is off-limit to foreign clients.



> Then there is ASM-1, 2, and (in development) XASM-3. All of those weapons have to be coded and carried.



By Lockheed Martin fore a fee of $$$$$$$$$, of course.



> Its very apparent that the JSDF asserts indigenous manufacture and supply.



If they did, then they would have gone for Typhoon or Boeing options.



In reality, one of Hatoyama's reform agenda is a move away from license production to lower procurement cost, and you are seeing the effect.

Hamilcar       11/23/2009 11:20:29 AM
You are a waste of time.
 
Is that CLEAR?

 
Quote    Reply

Heorot       11/23/2009 1:30:37 PM
No Herald, YOU are a waste of time (and bandwidth). Go and peddle your xenophobia elsewhere.
 
Quote    Reply
Pages: 1 2 3   NEXT



StrategyWorld.com© 1998 - 2010StrategyWorld.com. All rights Reserved. StrategyWorld.com, StrategyPage.com, FYEO, For Your Eyes Only and Al Nofi's CIC are all trademarks of StrategyWorld.com Privacy Policy