Aside from the lie about the Swiss sale, gentlemen, let's note that the French are hard up against four evaluation deadlines in the next year. Brazil, Switzerland, UAE, and INDIA. They have lots of incentive to LIE and exaggerate in their press about their turkey. Euros ride on it. Dassault have to make a sale, no matter how small. They are that desperate.

 

I don't accept that journos, as GF calls them, have any more unbiased insight than any other mouthpiece for the "party line". They will report and claim the same garbage that the Klown Klub or the Sprey brigade or GD Land systems would for their lightweight fighter or the Aardvark or some dumb tactical idea for the same EXACT reason: MONEY.

 

When desperation claims and exaggeration sets in, look at the MONEY CAUSE.

 

   

Anyway, just like GF I'd like to see more details about the conditions of the exercises, but I'm not going to hold my breath... 

It would be stupid, then. Do you really believe that a French squadron commander would blatantly lie, when said exercise happened precisely inside the very country that's seriously considering a Rafale buy ? If he lied the UAE would know it. Other nations' pilots would tell otherwise. In short I'd rather trust the 1/7 squadron commander rather than unsubstantiated claims on the internet.

Besides, calling the Rafale a turkey not even worth replacing the Swiss F-5 was a good laugh. Although given the current squabbles between France and Switzerland over banking/tax evasion issues, I'd hold my pronostic regarding a Swiss Rafale buy.

Anyway, just like GF I'd like to see more details about the conditions of the exercises, but I'm not going to hold my breath... 

 

Custer, Westmoreland, Jodl, Model, Gamelin,  Haig, MonthomeryTimochenko, Kulik, and McNair, Brereton, Harris, Beatty, and my favorite three, HALSEY, MACARTHUR, AND BRADLEY.    

 

All of them were famous liars who covered up their famous mistakes and incompetence with lies.

 

Specific French example.... 

 

National military characteristics do not change that much.

 

 

Then it would also mean that the UAE are blind. And that Typhoon users, for eg. are unwilling to call the French bluff either (why ? They've been using JOUST for ages to tell everyone how the Typhoon was second best only to the F22 in A2A...). Maybe we'll read their side of things later (I hope so).

 

UNCITED Source, we don't even know FOR SURE that it was originally a quote from a general - we have no other press releases - nothing.

Besides, broadly painting any French pilots praising his plane as a liar cals for the reverse skepticism. After all, why believe American pilots when they praise the F22 ? It's only LM marketing, pilots bragging, and "exercises" with rules that were designed to let the Raptor shine. Did an F22 ever shoot an enemy plane or dropped a bomb on enemy troops for real ? No ! It's not even combat proven (and it doesn't have electrolytes !) ! therefore it's a turkey. Proof, the US didn't even want to buy the full number :-P

 

But the thing is - the F22 is widely acknowledged by every airforce, pilot (of several nationalities) as being the undisputed king of A2A, whilst I accept the point you are making is somewhat in jest, the difference in this instance is that the F22 is performing as expected - look at what pilots who have flown the F22 have said about it. The difference in this case is that (as many typhoon posters did in 2005-8), dubious sources (i.e. a quote on a forum rather than anything reported by journals or trusted journalists or even press releases) are being used to give an "unknown context" version of events, in this case it's irrelevant unless we know the ROE and situation and who was performing what role in exercises - crucially, WVR/BVR, altitude, situational awareness, other limitations imposed - they said the Rafales A2A capability was "downgraded" without giving any further information - or telling us anything about what role they, or the typhoons they reportedly flew against were assuming in the exercise. And what's what is misleading - and I've heard it before.. many times... I'm not suggesting that the quote from the Raptor pilots is gospel either, merely that it is unsurprising given what everyone KNOWS about the aircraft that it is an order of magnitude more deadly per airframe than anything else in the sky - no one disputes it, Typhoon press releases don't go near making claims that they have parity yet based on these exercises and "reports" afterwards someone could happily find "evidence" that the typhoon is indeed able to lock on at long ranges (to a raptor) and engage it with relative parity.  Platform-specific "VS" debates are always out of context in any case as they fail to consider all of the important points about how systems are deployed and supported. 

See ? Easy :-) Of course that's blatant rhetorical obnoxiousness (and I don't believe the first word of it, naturally).

 

And I only make the point above to illustrate the difference as I percieve it to be.

Anyway, it's not the first international exercise where the Rafale was said (by French and non-French commentators) to have pe

Then it would also mean that the UAE are blind. And that Typhoon users, for eg. are unwilling to call the French bluff either (why ? They've been using JOUST for ages to tell everyone how the Typhoon was second best only to the F22 in A2A...). Maybe we'll read their side of things later (I hope so).

 

Excuse me, but the UAE can't even run their own air force. They have to hire it done. The British don't have to call the French bluff. There is no national lack of confidence there. 

Besides, broadly painting any French pilots praising his plane as a liar calls for the reverse skepticism. After all, why believe American pilots when they praise the F22 ? It's only LM marketing, pilots bragging, and "exercises" with rules that were designed to let the Raptor shine. Did an F22 ever shoot an enemy plane or dropped a bomb on enemy troops for real ? No ! It's not even combat proven (and it doesn't have electrolytes !) ! therefore it's a turkey. Proof, the US didn't even want to buy the full number :-P

 

Because Canadian, British, and Australian pilots also say the same fabulous things about the F-22 after they either fly it or go against it? And remember this is a plane that LOCKMART screwed up!    

See ? Easy :-) Of course that's blatant rhetorical obnoxiousness (and I don't believe the first word of it, naturally).

 

The negation is that I can go international about the Raptor and also the Rafale. Ones a positive result, the other NEGATIVE evaluation by professionals over and over again.  Who wants the Squall? Who wants the Raptor even at TWICE the price?

Anyway, it's not the first international exercise where the Rafale was said (by French and non-French commentators) to have performed its mission well. Emphasis on "perform its mission". It's not an X-Wing, it's not designed to destroy the Death Star or slaughter Raptors... As long as it performs the mission required by the French state, then it's a successful plane. In the end that's what counts in the real world, not dick-swinging "I have the BEST plane EVER !" contests.

 

Now, maybe those publicized comments are wrong. Then please point me to sources saying so. Reliable, named sources, of course ! Like this US pilots who, after the latest Red Flag, commented on the Rafales staying out of the furbal