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Subject: 6*F-22 vs 6*Typhoon vs 6*Rafale in the UAE?!
giblets    11/16/2009 4:48:58 AM
According to both Flight Global, and Defence News, other than attending the Dubai airshow, the USAF, RAF, and FAF each sent 6 of their finest fighter aircraft to the desert Kingdom to take part in multinational exercises. Other than adding much fuel to the fire for forum members here! It raises many questions (such as why the USAF was unable to send 1 F-22 to Paris, and can now send 6 to the UAE, despite no drop in operational tempo). And will the F22 and Typhoon not be in the air at the same time again?
 
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Bluewings12       12/18/2009 7:09:53 PM
By the way Gentlemen , do you think that the UAE could have asked the RAF Typhoons to simulate Saudi Typhoons ?
 
Interesting , isn ' it .
 
Cheers .
 
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gf0012-aust       12/18/2009 7:10:21 PM

I know gf , it hurts .

I just wander what it 's hurting you since nothing and no one from Oz was involved . You go as far as denying everything I say just to disprove the Dassault Rafale but you forget to keep in mind that I obviously know a bit more about the UAE DACT than you do . No bad intended , just a reminder .


 

Let 's get real here , you more or less all say "good job and the F-22 rules" when it 's coming back undefeated , but you bash the Rafale because , well , fill the dots ...


Is that partial ? Yes it is . The Rafales did an excellent job in every mission they were tasked to do and during AtoA evaluations and scripted scenarios , they shined . From where I stand , they were again the best multirole fighters of the DACT like they have been for the past 3 years since they are F2s and now F3s in fact . Which is the normal development .


Forget BW for a moment and read what I say , it is founded .

 

Cheers .



You're an idiot.  I'm not disproving Rafale at all and on sweet Gaias grave I have not bashed the Rafale,  you're so besotted with defending the platform that you can't even focus on the subject issue..  Read the ferking responses in full and without rose coloured glasses on.
 
I am talking about  your continuing mission to make things up, ignore how these things work in real life, and to continue to extrapolate what you want to believe from the most minor publicly available data present.
 
again, this has got nothing  to do with Rafale.
 
for goodness sake make the effort.  you're getting as bad as slowman
 
what bit do you not understand in any of my responses?  if you want to pretend to be a knowledgable enthusiast demonstrate some competency in the first place by reading and absorbing the written word.
 
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benellim4       12/18/2009 7:10:28 PM

I know gf , it hurts .


Yes BW, stupid does hurt. Reading your stupid posts causes me and others great pain. I would hurl insults your way, but really they've all been said before and you just keep on truckin'. You and others like you, Slowman for instance, keep SP from being a serious website.  
 
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Hamilcar    You know what your opinion is worth?   12/18/2009 7:12:02 PM

Hamilcar :


"" let's note that the French are hard up against four evaluation deadlines in the next year. Brazil, Switzerland, UAE, and INDIA.""

 

I give you my humble opinion , take it as it comes : Brazil , Switzerland and the UAE are a done deal , India has been lost long ago .

 

Cheers .




on topic is worth?
 
As much as it was on Libya, Morocco, Singapore, South Korea, Saudi Arabia, and now Switzerland.
 
NOTHING. 
 
 
 
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Bluewings12       12/18/2009 7:36:56 PM
gf :
""You're an idiot.""
 
If I am an idiot , you are a cretin .
 
""for goodness sake make the effort.""
 
What effort ??! It is you gf who is blind and biased ! Get lost with your ugly semantic mate .
 
""what bit do you not understand in any of my responses?""
 
I understood everything . I still say that you 're wrong and I know mor about the UAE DACT than you do . Deal with it or again , get lost .
 
Benellim4 :
""keep SP from being a serious website""
 
SP is not that serious , just look at some highly partial minds and various clowns . On some other sites , 20% of the posters here (to say the least) would be banned for life for flaming , trolling and insults .
Pfff ... whatever .
 
Cheers . 

 
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gf0012-aust       12/18/2009 7:54:03 PM


If I am an idiot , you are a cretin .
 
oh excellent retort.  this coming from someone who was banned, from someone who was caught lying numerous times, from someone who doesn't understand technology sets, and who abuses analysis with enough frequency to be nominated as a wavelength in their own right
 
What effort ??! It is you gf who is blind and biased ! Get lost with your ugly semantic mate .

 slow simole english just for you.  where is there any criticism of Rafale in my responses?  where is there any bias against rafale in my responses.  its your idiotic inability to understand how exercises are defined and delivered that is earth shattering

I understood everything . I still say that you 're wrong and I know mor about the UAE DACT than you do . Deal with it or again , get lost .
 
ROFLMAO, SP's ultimate teenage brained wannabe is telling others to get lost?  LOL, you might impress some teenagers but you aint impressing the adults.
 
but, in a fit of euphoria, you reckon you know all about the UAE DACT and thats excellent. So, can you explain all the DACT conditions again for the UAE exercises?
 
did red and blue interchange?
did red have spawning?
where did any material state the weapons conditions?
did blue have availability restrictions and if not why not? 
did red have availability restrictions and if not why not?
where were the engagement points?  altitude, entry into the sensored zones to simulate incursion etc...
what weapons limitations were in place?
what weapons systems were simmed on red and blue and against what red and blue structure?
what fuel levels did everyone have to emulate their designated sim?  it denotes engagement time and it even determines where they might engage?
who was white (we already know that but you seem to want to ignore it)?
who supplied the critical umpiring suites? (I look forward to how you dance around this one)?
what other observors were there? (feel free to dial a magical friend or log onto your "friends"  blog to ask questions
 
once you can get back to me we can workout what you actually know and what you have again made up
 
btw, how the research on that RAM coated flange plate going?
 
 
I'll even let you phone a friend on the flange plate question as its now 2 months since I first asked.  I know you like to run away and then pretend that you've been off driving somewhere, but I'm happy to ride you like a pony on this one now that you are a self proclaimed expert.
 
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warpig       12/18/2009 7:55:52 PM

A guy who knows at Air-Defense explained to us that during DACT , gun only scenarios were often limited to 1 or 2 minutes . After that , the aircraft involved simply break out and a draw is declared . Myself , I trust the guy .
If it did happen this way ~the UAE DACT rules are unknown at this time~ , I see it as an archivement for the Rafale .
Holding the F-22 5 times out of 6 is not a given for most actual aircraft . 
It could have gone the other way , maybe ;-)


The Captor better range doesn 't bring any edge , the lower Rafale 's RCS shows . Then , the Rafales probably used the "furet" tactic where one aircraft has all the bells and whistles ON , scanning happily everywhere to get datas and to be seen , the others staying silent and using datas from the 1st aircraft to direct passive means of detection while manoevring to get in position for a flank attack . The "furet" 's only jobs are to pass on the infos while staying outside the enemy missile bubble , before to join the fight . Sensor fusion and advance passive sensors are needed , of course .

It seems that the Typhoon is lacking against the Rafale .


And to think that just a week or so ago you were posting how you thought the Rafale was superior overall to the F-22 at WVR, siting as one particularly stupid reason being that the F-22 was "limited" to "only" 9G.  ("ONLY" 9G!  Buffoon.)  Anyway, now your tune is different, I see, and you consider surviving 5 out of 6 to be an achievement.  Well, no matter, I'm sure in a week or two from now you'll be singing a new (or repeating an old) tune again.
 
Speaking of buffoonery, why don't you try to explain your reasoning for how "The Captor better range doesn 't bring any edge , the lower Rafale 's RCS shows."  Please include in your analysis that the air battles very likely all began with everyone well within something like 50km to possibly 80km of each other, at the most--at which range everyone could already see everyone... oops, that is, of course, except for how no one could see the F-22.
 
...And do you honestly think that Typhoons do not use that same tactic?  F-22 certainly do, and F-35 certainly will, so why not Typhoon?
 
Really, it looks like the Rafale performed excellently within the scenarios, and hopefully we'll soon get some details of what happened so we can better judge just how seriously it and the other jets were challenged by the missions they flew.
 
 
 
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gf0012-aust       12/18/2009 8:03:40 PM
On some other sites , 20% of the posters here (to say the least) would be banned for life for flaming , trolling and insults .
 
 
I can assure you that on the sites that I've moderated on and moderate now on, you would have been sin binned along with the other 14 year old experts long ago.
 
 
 
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gf0012-aust       12/18/2009 8:21:51 PM
but, in a fit of euphoria, you reckon you know all about the UAE DACT and thats excellent. So, can you explain all the DACT conditions again for the UAE exercises?
 
did red and blue interchange?
did red have spawning?
where did any material state the weapons conditions?
did blue have availability restrictions and if not why not? 
did red have availability restrictions and if not why not?
where were the engagement points?  altitude, entry into the sensored zones to simulate incursion etc...
what weapons limitations were in place?
what weapons systems were simmed on red and blue and against what red and blue structure?
what fuel levels did everyone have to emulate their designated sim?  it denotes engagement time and it even determines where they might engage?
who was white (we already know that but you seem to want to ignore it)?
who supplied the critical umpiring suites? (I look forward to how you dance around this one)?
what other observors were there? (feel free to dial a magical friend or log onto your "friends"  blog to ask questions
 
once you can get back to me we can workout what you actually know and what you have again made up
 
btw, how the research on that RAM coated flange plate going?
 
I'll even let you phone a friend on the flange plate question as its now 2 months since I first asked.  I know you like to run away and then pretend that you've been off driving somewhere, but I'm happy to ride you like a pony on this one now that you are a self proclaimed expert.
 
 
As you're the expert on UAE's DACT scriptings, you'll appreciate that the above are the easy questions.  Once you grace us all with your expertise and knowledge I'll throw in the harder ones - and they're the ones where phoning and emailing a friend won't help you at all - you'll be on your own baby. :)
 
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mabie       12/18/2009 9:05:50 PM
DACT reminds me of my daughter's Aikido sessions.. each participant gets to practice their technique against a partner who serves as willing practice dummy getting thrown about or slammed to the floor while the techique is repeated again and again till its right. Unlike sparring, the object is not to triumph or prove superiority but to get the technique right. To draw a conclusion that she's "better" in any way than her partner is ludicrous as her partners are usually of a higher rank with years more experience.
 
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