Military History | How To Make War | Wars Around the World Rules of Use How to Behave on an Internet Forum
Fighters, Bombers and Recon Discussion Board
Sign In   Return to Topic Page
Subject: 6*F-22 vs 6*Typhoon vs 6*Rafale in the UAE?!
giblets    11/16/2009 4:48:58 AM
According to both Flight Global, and Defence News, other than attending the Dubai airshow, the USAF, RAF, and FAF each sent 6 of their finest fighter aircraft to the desert Kingdom to take part in multinational exercises. Other than adding much fuel to the fire for forum members here! It raises many questions (such as why the USAF was unable to send 1 F-22 to Paris, and can now send 6 to the UAE, despite no drop in operational tempo). And will the F22 and Typhoon not be in the air at the same time again?
 
Quote    Reply

Email Me When A New Comment Is Made
Show Only Poster Name and Title     Newest to Oldest

Das Kardinal       12/13/2009 1:54:11 PM

 

Fact is what they are good at is operating snug as a bug in US-sanitized and US-managed airspace (and taking up twice as much ramp space to do half the work).  But get them out of our ATO cycle and their ground troops are on their own without air support.  They are so non-self-sustaining it isn't even funny, they had to borrow RAF tanker assets just to fly to al Dhafra for the exercise this thread is about.


Other quote : The French don't plan to fight, except against colonial rabble.  They're probably right, too.

Taken together, I think those two quotes are right on point. In the current context :
_ there is pretty much 0 chance of France having to fight a First World nation. Most are our allies, others, like China, well they're far enough away that there's few reasons for a direct military conflict.
So what's left ?
_ little African wars and brushfires. We can deal with those well enough on our own, we've been doing it for ages and it doesn't take much stuff to do it.
_ other conflicts which are always going to involve our allies anyway : see Afghanistan, Iran... We didn't have to go in the former country (it was never really one of our areas of interest/influnce, Massoud's alleged Francophilia or not), we went there because our ally was attacked (you know, sometimes it's easy to forget that France and America are actually allies  , naturally with the usual provisos that even two "close" allies don't always have convergent interests). Iran, well, duh, no need to explain why everyone and his car would be involved by a war in the Persian Gulf !

Plus money's tight (a universal answer, alas...). I have few doubts that France has -currently- the necessary intellectual and industrial basics to design an indigenous AWACS or even a FAMAS replacement ;-) IF, money was no concern. Which it is not, so, choices, choices. Why reinvent the wheel, etc.
Anyway, whatever our nationality, we're always going to complain because the real world (paricularly our own countries) isn't behaving as smartly and competently as we'd wish, aren't we ? 
 
Quote    Reply

french stratege       12/13/2009 8:48:55 PM
Not a good new for us.And what I fear before since Congress and USAF want to keep F22 line open and to supply israelis and Japan
US offer F22 export version to UAE

UAE: Lockheed Martin, F-22 Rap... (40$)Add to cart

Posted on: Sat, Dec 12, 2009

Lockheed Martin is said to be trying to convince the Emiratis to buy the F-22 Raptor rather than the Rafale aircraft. The following 406-word report sheds light on the subject and tells how the Emirati officials are reacting. Note that the F-22 Raptor, made by Lockheed Martin and Boeing, uses stealth technology and was displayed at Dubai Air Show last month.

 
Quote    Reply

benellim4       12/13/2009 9:18:49 PM
Any report of an export of F-22s, is suspect at best. If you believe that the US will export F-22s to the UAE you probably believe one or more of the following:
-That Bush was behind 9/11
-That the Moon Landing was done on a Hollywood sound stage
-That Kennedy was assassinated by the "military-industrial" complex
-That aliens have landed on this planet frequently and anally probe inhabitants of mobile homes
 
Quote    Reply

Godofgamblers       12/13/2009 10:08:53 PM










Hey Nich, jeune ecole was a movement in France whose proponents advocated using torpedo boats and aviation instead of investing in an expensive navy. Basically it is a low budget, innovative answer to maintaining a huge fleet. (it didn't work of course). I wonder if a similiar though successful attempt could be made in the realm of aviation..... just wondering.....







 







I didn't know that  the jeune ecole was related to a specific history and group in France. Here in Quebec, when we use this expression, we are simply talking about the young approach in general. For us its not neceserly related to a specific country or field of interest.














 







thanks for this Godofgamblers.





















link... target="_blank">link


 



I take back what i said about it not being successful, actually. It had some success.







Actually the Wiki article got it wrong. The China example is NOT valid.

 


 

Only one commerce warfare example, using the submarine, resulted in victory. That took a capital ship based navy, and a series of fierce fleet engagements to sustain.






 
Quote    Reply

Godofgamblers    jeune ecole, H   12/13/2009 10:47:50 PM
H, I have been searching for an example of jeune ecole strategy that has worked but with little luck. By its definition it is the desperation strategy of a weaker opponent: thus by its defnition it is hardly a winner's strategy but a last ditch counter/spoiler strategy tu buy time or to harrass/impede rather than win.
 
The Somali pirates may be an example of a jeune ecole strategy: using Zodiacs with some success to board rather than engage larger ships. (But then again this doesnt really count as there is no war and the pirates represent no country).
 
And while it is possible to jerry rig a ship to have it fire torpedoes or assymetrically engage capital ships, it is much harder to jerry rig a plane to enable it to take on a modern fighter.
 
Perhaps in the future though we may see drones that are the equivalent of the SCUD missile: cheap, disposable and produced in quantity, that can take on modern more advanced fighters. This could be an aviation jeune ecole type approach.
 
Quote    Reply

jackjack       12/13/2009 11:31:27 PM

Not a good new for us.And what I fear before since Congress and USAF want to keep F22 line open and to supply israelis and Japan

US offer F22 export version to UAE

i think thats a miss-understanding, it will be the f-35
the f-22 is non-exportable
 
Quote    Reply

gf0012-aust       12/14/2009 1:43:25 AM

Any report of an export of F-22s, is suspect at best. If you believe that the US will export F-22s to the UAE you probably believe one or more of the following:

-That Bush was behind 9/11

-That the Moon Landing was done on a Hollywood sound stage

-That Kennedy was assassinated by the "military-industrial" complex

-That aliens have landed on this planet frequently and anally probe inhabitants of mobile homes

another good example of how the internet and poor quality journalism go hand in hand and why good old common sense is gold.... :)
 
 
 
Quote    Reply

gf0012-aust       12/14/2009 1:51:14 AM


i think thats a miss-understanding, it will be the f-35
the f-22 is non-exportable


Make the reporter write one thousand times on the blackboard:
 
"ITARs and the Obey Amendment mean no export sales for the F-22 under any FMS provisions"
 
Quote    Reply

jackjack       12/14/2009 6:02:45 AM
i'm actually wondering what block f-35 will exceed the capability of block 1 f-22
 
Quote    Reply

Bluewings12       12/14/2009 4:25:44 PM
I am not surprised if the US want to sell the F-35 to the UAE .

2 days ago , I wrote :
"Is it to "impress" the UAE with the stealth factor (F-35 market ?)"
 Warpig even responded to this very line by :
""But note that I did delete a line or two that I do not agree with.""

Anyway , we don 't know if it is true or not . 
However , I hope that the UAE will not fall into the F-35 trap but I don 't think they will .
They would pay dearly for it and they would have to wait years and the USAF is not going to buy back the M2000-9s .
 
Cheers .

 
 
Quote    Reply



StrategyWorld.com© 1998 - 2012StrategyWorld.com. All rights Reserved. StrategyWorld.com, StrategyPage.com, FYEO, For Your Eyes Only and Al Nofi's CIC are all trademarks of StrategyWorld.com Privacy Policy