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Subject: 6*F-22 vs 6*Typhoon vs 6*Rafale in the UAE?!
giblets    11/16/2009 4:48:58 AM
According to both Flight Global, and Defence News, other than attending the Dubai airshow, the USAF, RAF, and FAF each sent 6 of their finest fighter aircraft to the desert Kingdom to take part in multinational exercises. Other than adding much fuel to the fire for forum members here! It raises many questions (such as why the USAF was unable to send 1 F-22 to Paris, and can now send 6 to the UAE, despite no drop in operational tempo). And will the F22 and Typhoon not be in the air at the same time again?
 
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jackjack       12/12/2009 9:57:27 AM


Nice try, but you were discussing range shooting, I discussed hitting ACTUAL moving targets, and GF did likewise.
 
Sometimes you are hilarious. Let's try something here. When you were shooting your bright blue Coleman GAZ bottles with your FRF-I, did you shoot the bottles with one eye open, or both, and did you use a spotter?    
dont forget for added realism, he dresses up in a 50 pounds rucksack , 4 grenades , a military suite , a knife , a kevlar jacket , an helmet , a water bottle and whatever he likes to take , walk , run , walk and run for 20 miles in rough grounds
before he takes his 150m long shot at the gaz bottle
 
i wonder if he deploys range, wind, temp and air pressure sensors before hand ?
 
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Bluewings12       12/12/2009 2:19:35 PM
I wander what is the reason behind the F-22 presence at Al-Dhafra Air Warfare Center .
 
The USAF said : "The exercises are designed to promote security, stability and mutual interests in the region"

A French paper recently quoted : "The Americans remain relatively reserved on the engagement of this plane, of which they really make a point of dissimulating the true performances and the radar signature" .
 
The USA usually invite foreign fighters and the F-22 is rarely seen . Why Al-Dhafra ?
Is it to say "Hello" to Iran ? Is it to "impress" the UAE with the stealth factor (F-35 market ?) ?
There is also the "Ally" factor . Flying alongside Typhoons and Rafales could happen one of these days , but flying against them is highly unlikely .
This is probably why the Aggressors were excellent 4th Gen fighters (-5F and -9) to simulate a decent opponent . Iran don 't have fighters this good and it could have been an eye opener for some Iranians .
 
What do you think ?
 
Cheers .
 
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warpig       12/12/2009 4:38:44 PM

The USAF said : "The exercises are designed to promote security, stability and mutual interests in the region"

A French paper recently quoted : "The Americans remain relatively reserved on the engagement of this plane, of which they really make a point of dissimulating the true performances and the radar signature" .

Is it to say "Hello" to Iran ?

There is also the "Ally" factor . Flying alongside Typhoons and Rafales could happen one of these days , but flying against them is highly unlikely .

This is probably why the Aggressors were excellent 4th Gen fighters (-5F and -9) to simulate a decent opponent . Iran don 't have fighters this good and it could have been an eye opener for some Iranians .

I think all of the above are valid observations.  The F-22 pilots and crews need to practice deploying overseas, so they did.
 
 
 
 
 
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Bluewings12       12/12/2009 5:05:01 PM
Warpig :
""I think all of the above are valid observations.""
 
Yep , thanks .

Could we all together try to find out how F-22s , Typhoons and Rafale could work with each other to archive the best results ?
Let 's take an example (fiction) : Iran has been messing around and some F-22s , Typhoons and Rafales are based in the UAE alongside UAE M2000-9s and F-16 Blk60s . Let 's say that they have AWACs .
Who would do what ? 
 
Cheers .

 
 
 
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warpig       12/12/2009 6:51:30 PM

""I think all of the above are valid observations.""

Yep , thanks .

But note that I did delete a line or two that I do not agree with.


Let 's take an example (fiction) : Iran has been messing around and some F-22s , Typhoons and Rafales are based in the UAE alongside UAE M2000-9s and F-16 Blk60s . Let 's say that they have AWACs .

 

The UAE would sit it out and cheer us on from their Officer's Club, the Typhoons and Rafales would fly top cover over the Gulf,and B-2s from WhitemanAFB/Diego Garcia and the F-22s would penetrate the Iranian IADS compeletely undetected and bomb with impugnity whatever targets CENTCOM chose to hit.

 
 
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gf0012-aust       12/12/2009 7:07:13 PM
Hmmmmm
3 day war?
7 day war?
30 day war?
150 day war?
300 day war?

objectives?
political?
regime change?
decapitation?
deterrence?
civil authority emplaced?
catalyst for popular change?

Warfighting Intent
neutralization of kinetic warfighting ability in response?
neutralization of kinetic warfighting ability against neighbours?
neutralization of kinetic warfighting ability in total?
total force decapitation at the C3 level
total force delamination at the prosecution and reaction level?
restrict major manouvre?
restrict capacity to fight beyond regional centres?

Threat Assessment
What is the threat?
Why is it a threat?
Whats their intent to cause international force response?
Is it contained?
Can it be contained?
Have they threatened regional states?
Have they threatened non regional states with deliverable destructive weapons?
Is there a history of logistics and track events that support their intent to go to war?
Is the history of supporting track and logistics events indicative of sustained combat or is it posturing?


etc etc......  until you wrap up the above (and a whole lot more) this is just a biggles event.


 
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Bluewings12       12/12/2009 7:29:46 PM
Warpig :
""...and B-2s from WhitemanAFB/Diego Garcia...""
 
No B-2s in the scenario , this is the point . We have F-22s , Typhoons , Rafales , M2000-9s , F-16Blk60s and AWACS .
I understand that everybody would like to have some other platforms available , but let 's try to keep it like this for a purpose .
Who would do what ?
 
I would like us to try to be very realistic , without flag waving or whatsoever . Imagine that we have to act quickly with the fighters at hand plus AWACs .
Let 's say that we have two things to do simultaneously : stop an Iranian airstrike on the UAE and take out one Iranian airbase and one Iranian Gov building .
Who would do what ?
 
Cheers .
 

 
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warpig       12/12/2009 7:53:49 PM

Warpig :



""...and B-2s from WhitemanAFB/Diego Garcia...""

 

No B-2s in the scenario , this is the point . We have F-22s , Typhoons , Rafales , M2000-9s , F-16Blk60s and AWACS .

I understand that everybody would like to have some other platforms available , but let 's try to keep it like this for a purpose .


Who would do what ?


 

I would like us to try to be very realistic , without flag waving or whatsoever . Imagine that we have to act quickly with the fighters at hand plus AWACs .


Let 's say that we have two things to do simultaneously : stop an Iranian airstrike on the UAE and take out one Iranian airbase and one Iranian Gov building .


Who would do what ?

 

Cheers .



 







Oh, well, in that case:
 
The UAE would sit it out and cheer us on from their Officer's Club, the Typhoons and Rafales would fly top cover over the Gulf, and B-2s from WhitemanAFB/Diego Garcia and the F-22s would penetrate the Iranian IADS compeletely undetected and bomb with impugnity whatever targets CENTCOM chose to hit.

Of course, actually we'd wait one day, and then what I wrote the first time would apply.
 
 
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gf0012-aust       12/12/2009 8:10:14 PM
I understand that everybody would like to have some other platforms available , but let 's try to keep it like this for a purpose .

I would like us to try to be very realistic , without flag waving or whatsoever . Imagine that we have to act quickly with the fighters at hand plus AWACs . 

LOL, of course,  thats why you haven't set any parameters on the event and yet want to plan a mission/missions?

you can't do one with any degree of coherency without the other.
 
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Hamilcar    Show the flag exercise.   12/13/2009 4:21:09 AM






I understand that everybody would like to have some other platforms available , but let 's try to keep it like this for a purpose .




I would like us to try to be very realistic , without flag waving or whatsoever . Imagine that we have to act quickly with the fighters at hand plus AWACs . 










LOL, of course,  thats why you haven't set any parameters on the event and yet want to plan a mission/missions?



you can't do one with any degree of coherency without the other.
Same as when a carrier shows up. It just means the cop taps you on the shoulder when you loiter, to let you know, he has eyes on you.

I think that defines the mission here.
 
 
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