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Subject: 6*F-22 vs 6*Typhoon vs 6*Rafale in the UAE?!
giblets    11/16/2009 4:48:58 AM
According to both Flight Global, and Defence News, other than attending the Dubai airshow, the USAF, RAF, and FAF each sent 6 of their finest fighter aircraft to the desert Kingdom to take part in multinational exercises. Other than adding much fuel to the fire for forum members here! It raises many questions (such as why the USAF was unable to send 1 F-22 to Paris, and can now send 6 to the UAE, despite no drop in operational tempo). And will the F22 and Typhoon not be in the air at the same time again?
 
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Godofgamblers       12/11/2009 6:34:14 PM
Hey Nich, jeune ecole was a movement in France whose proponents advocated using torpedo boats and aviation instead of investing in an expensive navy. Basically it is a low budget, innovative answer to maintaining a huge fleet. (it didn't work of course). I wonder if a similiar though successful attempt could be made in the realm of aviation..... just wondering.....
 
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warpig       12/11/2009 7:11:49 PM

Hey Nich, jeune ecole was a movement in France whose proponents advocated using torpedo boats and aviation instead of investing in an expensive navy. Basically it is a low budget, innovative answer to maintaining a huge fleet. (it didn't work of course). I wonder if a similiar though successful attempt could be made in the realm of aviation..... just wondering.....




I suggest that discussing the merits of your proposition really would have to be done in two parallel streams of argument:  1) America v. anyone else, and 2) anyone but America v. anyone but America.  The huge capability of USAF/USN to conduct SEAD/DEAD and to operate against/within any IADS in the world compared to most other nation's capability means it's just apples and oranges to try to simultaneously assess groups 1) and 2), above, as to whether it is offense or defense that has the advantage in aerial warfare with respect to any two given opponents.
 
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Nichevo       12/11/2009 8:39:24 PM

 
Godofgamblers       12/11/2009 6:34:14 PM
Hey Nich, jeune ecole was a movement in France whose proponents advocated using torpedo boats and aviation instead of investing in an expensive navy. Basically it is a low budget, innovative answer to maintaining a huge fleet. (it didn't work of course). I wonder if a similiar though successful attempt could be made in the realm of aviation..... just wondering.....
 
 
Ah, thanks, GoG.  Another passel of assels then.  Thomas Jefferson thought you could run a navy that way too.  
 
What was I just woolgathering on?  Oh yes...stuff an airliner with a thousand AAMs and a CEC to link with AWACS, Aegis, etc.  Racetrack a few over Taiwan, boom, no more Chicom Zerg Rush threat. 
 
Mmm, mmm, love those easy answers...
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
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RedParadize       12/11/2009 9:41:17 PM
Hey Nich, jeune ecole was a movement in France whose proponents advocated using torpedo boats and aviation instead of investing in an expensive navy. Basically it is a low budget, innovative answer to maintaining a huge fleet. (it didn't work of course). I wonder if a similiar though successful attempt could be made in the realm of aviation..... just wondering.....
 
I didn't know that  the jeune ecole was related to a specific history and group in France. Here in Quebec, when we use this expression, we are simply talking about the young approach in general. For us its not neceserly related to a specific country or field of interest.
 
thanks for this Godofgamblers.
 
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Godofgamblers       12/11/2009 9:56:59 PM

Hey Nich, jeune ecole was a movement in France whose proponents advocated using torpedo boats and aviation instead of investing in an expensive navy. Basically it is a low budget, innovative answer to maintaining a huge fleet. (it didn't work of course). I wonder if a similiar though successful attempt could be made in the realm of aviation..... just wondering.....

 

I didn't know that  the jeune ecole was related to a specific history and group in France. Here in Quebec, when we use this expression, we are simply talking about the young approach in general. For us its not neceserly related to a specific country or field of interest.


 

thanks for this Godofgamblers.

 
I take back what i said about it not being successful, actually. It had some success.
 
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Godofgamblers    warpig   12/11/2009 10:00:21 PM
I suggest that discussing the merits of your proposition really would have to be done in two parallel streams of argument:  1) America v. anyone else, and 2) anyone but America v. anyone but America.  The huge capability of USAF/USN to conduct SEAD/DEAD and to operate against/within any IADS in the world compared to most other nation's capability means it's just apples and oranges to try to simultaneously assess groups 1) and 2), above, as to whether it is offense or defense that has the advantage in aerial warfare with respect to any two given opponents.
 
 Agreed. actually, the jeune ecole approach would by definition be followed by a weaker nation, so we should only consider 2. The US would have no interest in using this strategy. It would be like the UK using it against the French or Germans.... no need.
 
 
 
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RedParadize       12/12/2009 1:25:21 AM
Agreed. actually, the jeune ecole approach would by definition be followed by a weaker nation, so we should only consider 2. The US would have no interest in using this strategy. It would be like the UK using it against the French or Germans.... no need.
 
I think that if a true revolutionary concept have to emerge, it will most likely come from a advanced nation, most probably USA. They already did it with "stealth" technology. For the needed or not question,  Some say that American teen family fighter are a match for the latest "rest of the world" development. Some say that 5ft gen fighter worth its price. Some say both, and thats sound a bit ambivalent for me.
 
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Hamilcar       12/12/2009 1:32:30 AM

Pfff ...

You are right Herald but you are useless ...

We sell stuff to you too , do you want to ask thousands of US marines to give us back our helmets ?


 

Cheers .


PFFF. We CAN make our own and do. You can't even make a decent UAV or a modern SAM that works.
 
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Hamilcar       12/12/2009 1:43:07 AM

I was waiting for this one :

(JJ)

""bw, you are full of it, saturday afternoon shooters do comps 200m standing with iron sights

for a so called trained sniper, you dont seem to know much""

 

I was wandering when this BS would come in , it took some time I have to say .



It is where soldiers spot the "sunday afternoon shooters" .




JJ , if you read again what I responded to Nichevo with a different view , you WILL get what I was on .

I tell you ~if you don 't mind~ : take an good sunday afternoon shooter , give him an assault rifle with 5 clips , a 50 pounds rucksack , 4 grenades , a military suite , a knife , a kevlar jacket , an helmet , a water bottle and whatever he/her likes to take , makes him/her walk , run , walk and run for 20 miles in rough grounds . Then ~if he/her didn 't give up yet~ , put him/her in a middle of an ambush and let 's see what his/her shooting skills will be .

This is the daily life of the Commando , him/her being French , American , Japanese or (fill the dots) .

 

Add to this possible stress , defeaning sounds around , people going down and you get a better picture .

Now , aim and kill the mofo at 150m with a short burst shot or lay down with your FRF1 , aim , breath control and put a bullet in the head of the enemy radio-man half hidden behind a rock at 600m .


We 're not on the firing range JJ .


 

Cheers .









Nice try, but you were discussing range shooting, I discussed hitting ACTUAL moving targets, and GF did likewise.

Sometimes you are hilarious. Let's try something here. When you were shooting your bright blue Coleman GAZ bottles with your FRF-I, did you shoot the bottles with one eye open, or both, and did you use a spotter?   
 
 
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Hamilcar       12/12/2009 2:02:39 AM




Hey Nich, jeune ecole was a movement in France whose proponents advocated using torpedo boats and aviation instead of investing in an expensive navy. Basically it is a low budget, innovative answer to maintaining a huge fleet. (it didn't work of course). I wonder if a similiar though successful attempt could be made in the realm of aviation..... just wondering.....



 



I didn't know that  the jeune ecole was related to a specific history and group in France. Here in Quebec, when we use this expression, we are simply talking about the young approach in general. For us its not neceserly related to a specific country or field of interest.






 



thanks for this Godofgamblers.









link...
 

I take back what i said about it not being successful, actually. It had some success.
Actually the Wiki article got it wrong. The China example is NOT valid.
 
 
Only one commerce warfare example, using the submarine, resulted in victory. That took a capital ship based navy, and a series of fierce fleet engagements to sustain.

 
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