Military History | How To Make War | Wars Around the World Rules of Use How to Behave on an Internet Forum
Fighters, Bombers and Recon Discussion Board
Sign In   Return to Topic Page
Subject: 6*F-22 vs 6*Typhoon vs 6*Rafale in the UAE?!
giblets    11/16/2009 4:48:58 AM
According to both Flight Global, and Defence News, other than attending the Dubai airshow, the USAF, RAF, and FAF each sent 6 of their finest fighter aircraft to the desert Kingdom to take part in multinational exercises. Other than adding much fuel to the fire for forum members here! It raises many questions (such as why the USAF was unable to send 1 F-22 to Paris, and can now send 6 to the UAE, despite no drop in operational tempo). And will the F22 and Typhoon not be in the air at the same time again?
 
Quote    Reply

Email Me When A New Comment Is Made
Show Only Poster Name and Title     Newest to Oldest
jackjack       12/11/2009 5:13:22 PM
gf, he started with 150m as long range, which i corrected with fullbore comps out to 1000m with iron sights
he then said,,standing which i also corrected with rapid fire 200m standing comps
when casual shooters dont consider it long range, its silly to state that 150m standing is considered long range for a trained sniper
either he is telling mistruths or french snipers arent worth giving a rifle to
 
Quote    Reply

jackjack       12/11/2009 5:22:02 PM

I was waiting for this one :

(JJ)

""bw, you are full of it, saturday afternoon shooters do comps 200m standing with iron sights

for a so called trained sniper, you dont seem to know much""



 



I was wandering when this BS would come in , it took some time I have to say .



It is where soldiers spot the "sunday afternoon shooters" .




JJ , if you read again what I responded to Nichevo with a different view , you WILL get what I was on .

I tell you ~if you don 't mind~ : take an good sunday afternoon shooter , give him an assault rifle with 5 clips , a 50 pounds rucksack , 4 grenades , a military suite , a knife , a kevlar jacket , an helmet , a water bottle and whatever he/her likes to take , makes him/her walk , run , walk and run for 20 miles in rough grounds . Then ~if he/her didn 't give up yet~ , put him/her in a middle of an ambush and let 's see what his/her shooting skills will be .

This is the daily life of the Commando , him/her being French , American , Japanese or (fill the dots) .

 

Add to this possible stress , defeaning sounds around , people going down and you get a better picture .

Now , aim and kill the mofo at 150m with a short burst shot or lay down with your FRF1 , aim , breath control and put a bullet in the head of the enemy radio-man half hidden behind a rock at 600m .


We 're not on the firing range JJ .


 

Cheers .










i wish you would keep to the same story, now your a squad marksman, before you were a dedicated sniper with a spotter
say what you like, i say it would be embarrising for a trained sniper to say 150m standing is a long shot
 
Quote    Reply

gf0012-aust       12/11/2009 5:23:56 PM
150m standing is considered long range for a trained sniper

a standing sniper?? maybe if you're qualifying, but on the job at 150m?

excuse me while I have a "robbie the robot" moment......
 
Quote    Reply

Reactive       12/11/2009 5:33:21 PM
...Lol.. Bluewings, when you were a special forces sniper assassin, did you have a smaller beergut than you currently do? You just don't seem to fit the bill...  Can't imagine you running 200m tbh.. : )
 
Most 5.56 AR's have effective ranges out past 400m and support weaponry is more suitable past that distance. Quite a medium/high velocity round up to 900ms with a fairly flat trajectory, good for pinpoint accuracy but past 300m or so quite susceptible to wind though with less drop than a 7.62..  Not convinced about BW stories, they always seem too contrived and like a badly written novel for teenage boys from the 1960's..
 
He makes lots of mistakes then never comes around to correct them, just makes up new things that then also have to be contested..
 
Quote    Reply

gf0012-aust       12/11/2009 5:35:26 PM
it would be embarrising for a trained sniper to say 150m standing is a long shot

we had a tracker who was also a Queens Shooter.  He could line up a goanna when it stood up and remove its head at 200 yards (fairly easy to remove a goana head if you manage to hit it when its a .303!). and as you know, goanas don't stand up and look around for long. 
he was no sniper by any means.
 
Quote    Reply

Bluewings12       12/11/2009 5:35:52 PM
JJ , you must understand as quick as you can that we 're not talking about the same things , we 're not on the same wavelengh . If you don 't want to follow me , I will not follow you on the firing range . I don 't care about shooting at cardboards , everybody can be good with a bit of practice .
 
Cheers .
 
Quote    Reply

Bluewings12       12/11/2009 5:38:19 PM
It is becoming annoying . Let 's go back on topic , the rifle discussion is close on my side .
 
Cheers .
 
Quote    Reply

jackjack       12/11/2009 5:58:48 PM


it would be embarrising for a trained sniper to say 150m standing is a long shot
 
we had a tracker who was also a Queens Shooter.  He could line up a goanna when it stood up and remove its head at 200 yards (fairly easy to remove a goana head if you manage to hit it when its a .303!). and as you know, goanas don't stand up and look around for long. 
he was no sniper by any means.
my dad use to use a 303 and was a queens shooter, the local sa made omark put an end to the 303 in comps,
i've done a bit of fullbore with iron sights (you cant use scopes) but didnt get into it, all afternoon for 15 shots laying in the rain or heat didnt do it for me, trap, skeet and pistol was my sport
 
Quote    Reply

Godofgamblers       12/11/2009 6:25:08 PM

GoG , you 'll never stop to surprise me .

 


""In a hot war between two top-rank opponents, i think they might be quickly swapped for SAMS, air defences and, for offense, drones. Or saved for a special offensive to tip the scales in one theater. But as a warplane, let's face it, fighter planes have evolved themselves off the battlefield.""

 

That 's spot on . Everybody 's trying to fire for stand-off range as much as possible . BVR in AtoG and AtoA is the idea .

 

""PS
BW, i have been reading the Fighter board for some time and have to tip my hat to you. Your knowledge in this field is quite impressive for someone who comes from a different background... and in a foreign language. I think my French is pretty good.... but as i read your posts, i realize i could never say the same things in French. Many reading your posts take this for granted: i do not.""

 

Thank you .

 


""However, my advice to you........................The Socratic Method.... works every time.""

 

Ok , I am going to humbly try that .

 


""j'espere te lire sous peu et bien a vous chef!""

 

lol ! Juste une petite erreur : you use "te" and then "vous" , don 't mix the two :

j ' espère TE lire sous peu et bien à TOI chef (or : j ' espère VOUS lire sous peu et bien à VOUS chef)


;-)

***********************

155E :


""Fact is what they are good at is operating snug as a bug in US-sanitized and US-managed airspace (and taking up twice as much ramp space to do half the work).""

 

This is uncalled for . Of course French pilots like to fly in a US- managed airspace , who wouldn 't ? But that doesn 't mean that we couldn 't do it without , does it ?

 


""But get them out of our ATO cycle and their ground troops are on their own without air support.""

 

Sorry ? They are other support fighters from NATO ! What do you mean ? Is it ... bashing ?


If the US umbrella suddently disapear , one would see EU AWACs and Tankers on station . Where is the problem ?

I can already hear the question : "why don 't you do it and save the US tax payers ?


This is a very "hot" topic ...

I am walking on eggs here , it is StrategyPage .


I think that the USA like to take the lead for multiple reasons , like to show their strenght , having the last word , fighting for a cause . This is not new and most of the time , the USA had it right .

It shows will and money , the two things who run the World (with sex , lol) .

Europe is not really lacking in these regards , far from it in fact . It is a common mistake to think that because Europe is happy to see the USA taking the lead in many war ops for a mutual cause , that Europe couldn 't do it by Herself .

Europe ~as an entity~ is very strong .

 


""They are so non-self-sustaining it isn't even funny, they had to borrow RAF tanker assets just to fly to al Dhafra for the exercise this thread is about.""

 

No , we are not "non-self-sustaining" , where did you get this ? We asked one of our best ally for a favor like they do with us on other occasion . The UK don 't have Tankers on station over many parts of Africa (or elsewhere) like we have .


If push comes to shove over Europe or France , many Tankers will be back in no time .

 

Cheers .






 










 
Quote    Reply

Godofgamblers       12/11/2009 6:28:08 PM

Hello Godofgamblers

 

I tend to agree with you, modern warplane are made of limited conflict. but thats what war have become after all? I reeded somewhere that back in the cold war, USAF was expecting to lose 79% of its aircraft in the initial nuclear exchange with USSR. Industrial complex would probably not survive to produce such advanced piece of technology after that. So I guess we can say it would not look like ww2 nor Gulf war situation if the belligerents are top rank nation. Like Albert Einstein said:

 

"I know not with what weapons World War III will be fought, but World War IV will be fought with sticks and stones." 




About the jeune ecole type approach. I think "6st gen" warplanes&warfare will be radically different from what we know. I am willing to discuss about that with you and the other poster. This topic is not the place to talk about that. I am gonna create a topic on that subject.



 

PS


I have to say that I really enjoyed reading your previous post. Respectful and humble, we definitively need more post like that on StrategyPage. I would love to see more of Socratic type of debate here. Solid Fact and source are rarely available when talking about military tech. But if Democritus and Leucippus discovered the atom only with the power of deduction, we might find some clue about various subject here.
Thanks, RP. Will be following your new thread with interest!
 
Quote    Reply



StrategyWorld.com© 1998 - 2012StrategyWorld.com. All rights Reserved. StrategyWorld.com, StrategyPage.com, FYEO, For Your Eyes Only and Al Nofi's CIC are all trademarks of StrategyWorld.com Privacy Policy