The TV has to be cued.  Furthermore, it's only the likes of FS and BW that claim the Rafale's IRST is actually effective/likely to find something like the F-22 at dozens of miles away.

I worked on an IR-TI system just over 2 years ago that had "real" double digit reach.  That sucker wasn't going anywhere without talking to other systems - and it was a current generation techset that was able to pick up a bubbling plume of water in a forest on a damn cold night at "nn" range at "nn" altitude.

without discriminatory cueing it's about as useful as a flamethrower in hell.

I can't get a definitive number but it looks to me after a bunch of searches that the F3 doesn't carry the OSF, and that maybe as few as 48 sets have been ordered or fitted for the whole fleet. So, I don't understand why you keep referring to it as the magic silver bullet for all occasions.

 

The F22 is more likely get a first look/first kill in any scenario for reasons that have been done to death. Spectra can't cue a missile - at best it *might* get OSF pointed in the rough direction of the source of the radar emissions. By the time the pilot has reacted to the Spectra cue, had a squint at the OSF and made a decision, it's likely the missile will be on the way.

 

 

Ian

 

 

Sure, but without cueing it's just a boresighted narrow FOV sensor with no volume search capability.  Every TCS and IRST type sensor has to be cued to do off-boresight air to air acquisition.  Even the marketing for Rafale's "totally passive interception" says this is how OSF is used.

 

I am not saying that Rafale's IR sensors and IR missiles won't work against an F-22.  What I am saying is that because it is unlikely that Rafale can get its radar on the F-22, and it is likely that the F-22 can get its radar on the Rafale, the F-22 has a detection angle advantage even at near-WVR ranges.

is what is called the Soda Straw Problem. Even with aimed cuing, you have to scan for best signal in one degree of sky. Hence that SCAN part. (SARCASM)

IIR sensors are capable to detect heat sources smaller than their pixel element for quite some time now and if you look at some fixed FLIRs they can achieve a FOV of some ~20° x 20° or more. IRSTs have a moveable mirror which can follow a scan pattern very much like a mechanically scanning radar sweeps its dish and follows a scan pattern, so the IRST can search targets on its own. It might well be that the range performance could be increased by zooming in which would narrow its FOV and therefore makes a search process painfully slow and inefficient, this would require cueing by another sensor. The interesting part here would be if the range values given apply to a zoomed or unzoomed view. Note that I take about IRSTs in general here. In the case of the Rafale the cueing was related to its TV camera which has no search function as it is only used to identify a specific target, hence it is slewed to another sensor.

I fully agree on the F-22 part though I wouldn't bet that a modern radar can't get a lock on at WVR ranges. 

 

It is getting interesting .

 

Warpig :

In fact , when you look carefully at the F-22 , it relies on 3(+) things when alone :

- its stealth under the X band

- its APG-77

- its AN/ALR-94 passive receiver

- (+ AWAC)

 

I know that flying alone is not in the US inventory (!) but it happens very often . It happened in Vietnam , in Iraq , in Bosnia , in Kosovo , etc ... It happens to every Air Force in the World . You 're on CAP and something is coming up near you , as simple as that .

 

I rate very highly the ALR-94 for its sensitivity and range which is said to be around 300km (Spectra 's range is said to be around 150km) .  We also know that the passive receiver is the main thing behind the EMCON capability of the F-22 .

It is not a surprise that the F-22 has some huge capabilities in awareness and long range discretion .

I think that it deserves better than the actual Amraam . If it could fire at  120km+ a salvo of EM and IR missiles , that would be great .

It also deserves a decent active ECM suite . To this extent , the F-22 is probably going to use its radar as an ECM suite , but when ?

It also deserves an IRST .

 

Cheers .

The main advantages are altitude, energy, first look, and ambush shot setup with missiles that work.

 

That is why an aircraft with weak engines, myopic sensors, and non working missiles dies first and easy in an ECM environment when the users of the other signal managed aircraft also enjoys ACTIVE offensive electronic warfare superiority from its ECM buddies land, sea, and air.   

 

Nothing in the air is a joust. Its more like an organized ambush with the better eyes getting the drop on the baby seals about to be clubbed to death.   

I'm not sure what the point of your example is - the Raptor isn't going to open it's bay doors til it's got a firing solution and at 30km, the door is going to open to let loose an AIM-120. Why would the F22 pop it's doors open that early to take an IR shot? And why would the F22 in any event continue to drive headlong into the teeth of a return shot? This is fairly basic fighter pilot stuff, if you're undetected, start moving around onto the tail - see if you can get a Rafale in a 1 g guns tracking kill to add to the F16 tally, if you're feeling excessively sporting. First thing the Rafale is going to hear about it is the Spectra system letting him know there's an AIM-120 inbound at speed.

 

 

Ian