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Subject: UK Pilot flight test the Rafale F3
Bluewings12    11/9/2009 1:57:05 PM
By Peter Collins : Chapter 1 , the aircraft : "Most advanced Allied air forces now have operational fleets of fourth-generation fighters (defined by attributes such as being fly-by-wire, highly unstable, highly agile, net-centric, multi-weapon and multi-role assets). These Western types include the Boeing F/A-18E/F Super Hornet, Dassault Rafale, Eurofighter Typhoon and Saab Gripen NG. The Boeing F-15E and Lockheed Martin F-16 have an older heritage, but their latest upgrades give them similar multi-role mission capabilities. Of the above group, only the Super Hornet and Rafale M are capable of aircraft-carrier operations. As these fourth-generation fighters' weapons, sensor systems and net-centric capabilities mature, the likelihood of export orders for such an operationally proven package becomes much more realistic. On behalf of Flight International, I became the first UK test pilot to evaluate the Rafale in its current F3 production standard, applicable to aircraft for both French air force and French navy frontline squadrons. The "proof-of-concept" Rafale A first flew in 1986 as an aerodynamic study, leading to the programme's formal launch two years later. The slightly smaller single-seat Rafale C01 and two-seat B01 for the French air force and single-seat M01 and M02 prototypes for the navy flew from 1991. The first production-standard Rafale flew in 1998, and entered service with the navy's 12F squadron at Landivisiau in 2004 in the F1 (air-to-air) standard. Deliveries of the air force's B- and C-model aircraft started in 2006 in the F2 standard, dubbed "omnirole" by Dassault. Since 2008, all Rafales have been delivered in the F3 standard, which adds reconnaissance pod integration and MBDA's ASMP-A nuclear weapon capability. All aircraft delivered in earlier production standards will be brought up to the F3 configuration over the next two years. The French forces plan to purchase 294 Rafales: 234 for the air force and 60 for the navy. Their Rafales are set to replace seven legacy fighter types, and will remain as France's principal combat aircraft until at least 2040. To date, about 70 Rafales have been delivered, with a current production rate of 12 a year. Rafale components and airframe sections are built at various Dassault facilities across France and assembled near Bordeaux, but maintained in design and engineering configuration "lockstep" using the virtual reality, Dassault-patented Catia database also used on the company's Falcon 7X business jet. Rafale software upgrades are scheduled to take place every two years, a complete set of new-generation sensors is set for 2012 and a full mid-life upgrade is planned for 2020 SUPERB PERFORMANCE The Rafale was always designed as an aircraft capable of any air-to-ground, reconnaissance or nuclear strike mission, but retaining superb air-to-air performance and capabilities. Air force and navy examples have made three fully operational deployments to Afghanistan since 2005, giving the French forces unparalleled combat and logistical experience. The commitments have also proved the aircraft's net-centric capabilities within the co-ordination required by coalition air forces and the command and control environment when delivering air support services to ground forces. Six Rafale Ms recently carried out a major joint exercise with the US Navy from the deck of the Nimitz-class aircraft carrier the USS Theodore Roosevelt. The air force's B/C fighters have 80% commonality with the navy's Rafale M model, the main differences being the latter's navalised landing gear, arrestor hook and some fuselage longitudinal strengthening. Overall, the M is about 300kg (661lb) heavier than the B, and has 13 hardpoints, against the 14 found on air force examples. Dassault describes the Rafale as omnirole rather than multirole. This is derived from the wide variety of air-to-ground and air-to-air weapons, sensor pods and fuel tank combinations it can carry; the optimisation of aircraft materials and construction; and the full authority digital FBW controlling a highly agile (very aerodynamically unstable) platform. This also gives the aircraft a massive centre of gravity range and allows for a huge combination of different mission stores to be carried, including the asymmetric loading of heavy stores, both laterally and longitudinally. Other attributes include the wide range of smart and discrete sensors developed for the aircraft, and the way that the vast array of received information is "data fused" by a powerful central computer to reduce pilot workload when presented in the head-down, head-level and head-up displays. The Rafale is designed for day or night covert low-level penetration, and can carry a maximum of 9.5t of external ordinance, equal to the much larger F-15E. With a basic empty weight of 10.3t, an internal fuel capacity of 4.7t and a maximum take-off weight of 24.5t, the Rafale can lift 140% of additional lo
 
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Hamilcar    Damns the plane exactly as described.   11/26/2009 8:35:41 AM

Sorry if the following was posted previously..


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RAFALE, AS GOOD AS ITS PRESS? 


Exclusive online report from Jon Lake and Marcus Messalla



For many observers, the star of the Dubai air show was Dassault&S217;s Rafale, coverage of which dominated the various air show daily newspapers. Following the June 2008 announcement that the UAE government was in discussions to buy the Rafale, many expected a contract to be signed during 2009, possibly during the show. 

But while the companies that make up &S216;Team Rafale&S217; did sign a plethora of contracts with local organisations and entities that looked like part of an &S216;offset&S217; deal, strengthening French involvement and influence in the UAE education, technology and aviation sectors, and though Dassault&S217;s delegation at Dubai included Serge Dassault himself, and Charles Edelstenne (Dassault President), no Rafale deal was inked.

And some have speculated that the Rafale deal may have already started to slip out of Dassault&S217;s grasp. Brigadier General Ibrahim Naser Alalawi, deputy commander of the UAE Air Force and Air Defence, expressed his hope that the UAE would have a fifth-generation fighter within a couple of years, leading some to expect that the F-35 Joint Strike Fighter might win an order in place of the Rafale. 

Retired Gen Khalid al Buainnain, the former chief of the UAE Armed Forces, emphasized the need for &S220;interoperability&S221; with other systems and weapons platforms &S211; and especially the US-supplied Block 60 F-16E/F, and emphasized that there was no need to rush to sign a deal &S220;because the capability of the Mirage 2000 and the F-16 is very strong&S221;, while Riad Kahwaji, the chief executive of INEGMA, insisted that &S220;The French government needs to find a solution for (finding a customer for the UAE&S217;s existing) Mirage 2000s in order for the UAE to be able to purchase the Rafale.&S221;

Others pointed to the sudden decision by Lockheed and Eurofighter to send their fighters to Dubai as perhaps indicating that the deal had not been finally sealed.

 Rampant Rafale or Arrant Nonsense?

But despite all this, Dassault seemed to be winning the media battle, with the aircraft gaining a great deal of positive coverage in the local and specialist press &S211; most notably in the UK trade magazine &S216;Flight International&S217;, which published an extended flight test in the week leading up to Dubai. This flight test (titled &S216;Rampant Rafale&S217;) was then re-printed in full in &S216;Flight Daily News&S217; at the show, and is presented on Flightglobal at:
link />
Flight printed the cover line &S216;Rafale Rules!&S217; on it&S217;s front cover &S211; together with the taster &S220;Why we think favourite for UAE fighter contest is most complete combat aircraft we have flown.&S221;

Flight&S217;s test pilot (Pete Collins, a retired RAF Wing Commander, former RAF test pilot and Red Arrow) concluded that: &S220;If I had to go into combat, on any mission, against anyone, I would, without question, choose the Rafale.&S221; 

From such a pilot, this ringing endorsement seemed, on the face of it, to be unarguable.

But RAF Typhoon pilots in the UAE reacted with puzzled amusement and barely disguised scorn. 

&S220;If he thought that, he can&S217;t have flown Typhoon&S221; one told me, bluntly, while another (who had actually flown Rafale) explained that &S220;the Rafale is underpowered by comparison with Typhoon, and needs reheat where we would use dry. We can get through the Mach and supercruise in dry power at typical operating altitudes, and you simply can&S217;t do that in Rafale.&S221;

Pilots who had experienced Rafale&S217;s much vaunted MMI were less than fulsome, concluding that it was &S220;probably great if you&S217;re a Mirage 2000 pilot, but the test will be how a rookie adapts to it.&S221; Even the Armée de l&S217;Air acknowledge that it takes more than 100 flying hours to get used to the collimated cockpit display, they told Combat Aircraft.

And looking into the Flight flight test more carefully, it became clear that the glowing praise was based on flimsy foundations, as an RAF test fly
 
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Hamilcar    Marcus Mesalla us this guy.   11/26/2009 8:44:09 AM
Data.

Its a nom de plume. I suspect I might know him.
 
 
 
 
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Bluewings12       11/26/2009 11:42:29 AM
Herald (Hamilcar) :
 
""Works for me. Matches exactly what I told you word for word.""
 
I was waiting for that and I just won 5 Euros :-)
I did bet with a friend that Herald would follow that fool of Jon Lake (jackonico on some forums) and 'bang" , jackpot .
 
Thanks Herald , you just made my day !
The problem with you Herald is that you are ready to swallow every BS as long as it fits your agenda . Unfortunatly for you , this so-called paper is full of innacuracies , errors , mistakes and bias . In fact , when you know who Jon Lake is and who 's he working for (freelance for BAE) , you can spot the "clown" right away .
 
In fact , I am preparing a long post where I will try to describe in details why the Typhoon is trailing behind the Rafale and what the AESA technology brings in regard to detection versus ECM .
My guess is that you will be surprised .
 
Cheers .
 
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MK       11/26/2009 1:19:57 PM
The problem with you Herald is that you are ready to swallow every BS as long as it fits your agenda . Unfortunatly for you , this so-called paper is full of innacuracies , errors , mistakes and bias . In fact , when you know who Jon Lake is and who 's he working for (freelance for BAE) , you can spot the "clown" right away .
 
Jon Lake is often being accused to work for BAES by french Rafale fans, but I have never seen a proof for that. He certainly is a brit who is speaking highly about the Typhoon, albeit he has often enough criticised the aircraft or more so the programme in his articles. When it comes to the Rafale he is repeating some claims with which Rafale fans disagree and that's why he is accused to be biased and working for BAES. He has also praised the Rafale and pointed out its strong points over the Typhoon, both for the aircraft and the programme. Interestingly that is never realised by you guys. He isn't writing entirly uncritical articles which you would like to see and that's interesting, you appreciate articles full of praise, with no criticism and take them for gospel truth and dismiss articles which contains both critics and praise as inaccurate/biased etc. This raises the question who is more biased here?
 
In fact , I am preparing a long post where I will try to describe in details why the Typhoon is trailing behind the Rafale and what the AESA technology brings in regard to detection versus ECM .

My guess is that you will be surprised .
 
I'll bet that I won't be overly surprised with the conclusions, but am yet awaiting it. Happy writing.
 
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gf0012-aust       11/26/2009 1:53:39 PM
In fact , I am preparing a long post where I will try to describe in details why the Typhoon is trailing behind the Rafale and what the AESA technology brings in regard to detection versus ECM .

Really?  This would be interesting as the RAF Typhoon pilot on exchange who gave us a briefing 11 months ago stated that Tiffys AESA was slated for 2010 deployment and that even so they regarded it as non critical because there was no near peer threat that warranted accelerating the program.  But you knew that already didn't you?


My guess is that you will be surprised .

only if you start to demonstrate that you understand technology sets.
 
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MK       11/26/2009 2:24:04 PM
Really?  This would be interesting as the RAF Typhoon pilot on exchange who gave us a briefing 11 months ago stated that Tiffys AESA was slated for 2010 deployment and that even so they regarded it as non critical because there was no near peer threat that warranted accelerating the program.  But you knew that already didn't you?

Even officers can be wrong and that one certainly is. ;)
Back in 2006 when the CAESAR just started flying abord the BAC 1-11 radar trials aircraft EuroRadar officials stated that a productionised version could be ready by 2011. Up to date the 4 partner nations have not even agreed on a specific AESA solution for the Typhoon, while development continued the programme isn't fully funded and while british and germans support the AESA radar for the Typhoon, the italians are less keen with it. A decision is now hoped to be reached by february 2010 and all recent sources from within the industry indicate that an AESA radar for the Typhoon won't be available before 2013 and that's the earliest date.

 
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gf0012-aust       11/26/2009 3:18:07 PM
Even officers can be wrong and that one certainly is. ;)

Back in 2006 when the CAESAR just started flying abord the BAC 1-11 radar trials aircraft EuroRadar officials stated that a productionised version could be ready by 2011. Up to date the 4 partner nations have not even agreed on a specific AESA solution for the Typhoon, while development continued the programme isn't fully funded and while british and germans support the AESA radar for the Typhoon, the italians are less keen with it. A decision is now hoped to be reached by february 2010 and all recent sources from within the industry indicate that an AESA radar for the Typhoon won't be available before 2013 and that's the earliest date.

MK, there may well be a change,  however, I'm happy to standby my initial claim as it was made by a uniform at a formal briefing to allies and those cleared (ABCA) to attend.
The clear statement then was that RAF was in no rush to accelerate AESA on the tiffy because there was no foreseeable near peer threat which warranted earlier development.  RAF - like everyone else was on a tight budget and everyone (incl JSF and Rafale builds) have slipped to the right.  The decision point of 2010 still stands though if you look at the material you provided.




 
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Heorot    AESA for Typhoon   11/26/2009 3:42:23 PM

Report below was in FlightGlobal last week.

 

The Eurofighter partner nations are moving towards an agreement to integrate an active electronically scanned array radar with the type, as discussions over Tranche 3A production near a conclusion.

 

"We are talking at great length, and there is a gradual coming together," says Bob Mason, vice-president marketing and sales for Selex Galileo, prime contractor and design authority for the Eurofighter Typhoon's current mechanically scanned Captor radar. "A lot of things are pulling E-scan to the fore, and we expect some sort of agreement within two to three months."

Selex, which produces over 50% of the Captor system at its facilities in Edinburgh, Scotland and Milan, Italy, believes the addition of an AESA array will be a vital step towards the Typhoon securing additional sales with nations such as India and Japan.

 

"The Typhoon needs an E-scan radar, or it will not export," says Mason. Rival types such as the Boeing F/A-18E/F Super Hornet and Dassault Rafale are already being offered with AESA systems.

EADS conducted test flights with the Euroradar consortium's Caesar active array using a Eurofighter development aircraft in 2007, and Selex has also previously supplied AESA systems to the UK Ministry of Defence for evaluation in fast jet types such as the Panavia Tornado.

 

A prototype of the company's Vixen 1000E/Raven ES05 is also now in flight test with Saab's Gripen Demo airframe, with this viewed as a de-risking activity for a possible larger version for the Typhoon.

"E-scan was previously looked at as risky and potentially costly. Now the risk of doing nothing is worse," says Alastair Morrison, deputy senior vice-president radar and advanced targeting for Selex Galileo. "It's in everyone's interest to make this work."

 

Selex says an AESA array could now be produced for the same cost as a mechanically scanned system, but deliver a five- to 10-times increase in mean-time between critical failures, reducing maintenance and other through-life support costs.

 

The new technology also brings advances in detection range and performance, for example by operating "virtually instantaneously" in both air-to-air and air-to-ground modes. Selex has also developed a "swashplate repositioner", which enables the normally fixed AESA array to be moved laterally by +/-100°. "Germany now believes a repositioner of some sort is desirable," says Mason

.

An AESA version of the Captor could also potentially be retrofitted to Tranche 2 aircraft for Germany, Italy, Spain and the UK.

Separately, Mason says Selex is now investigating wider uses for AESA radar technology, including possible communications and electronic attack modes. "We are looking at all applications," he says.

 

 
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MK       11/26/2009 3:49:24 PM
MK, there may well be a change,  however, I'm happy to standby my initial claim as it was made by a uniform at a formal briefing to allies and those cleared (ABCA) to attend.
The clear statement then was that RAF was in no rush to accelerate AESA on the tiffy because there was no foreseeable near peer threat which warranted earlier development.  RAF - like everyone else was on a tight budget and everyone (incl JSF and Rafale builds) have slipped to the right.  The decision point of 2010 still stands though if you look at the material you provided.
 
Feel free to believe what you want. The facts add up differently and "decision" and "deployment" are two entirely different things. Maybe he has said something else or meant something else? A "deployment" of an AESA radar on the Typhoon in 2010 might be possible in the way that a single radar is fitted to a single aircraft for further development and integration, but there won't be a retrofit to existing or even new built aircraft in 2010. As said a final decision has yet to be made and this decision is not just about commiting to the AESA radar for the Typhoon itself, but how it will be configured. A development directly from CAESAR might be fieldable relative fast as the system should be quiet mature right now. The press hasn't covered further testing/development process after the flight trials on DA5, but it is known that the radar has been retrofitted to the BAC 1-11 trials aircraft and has been flown in additional trial campaigns. I could imagine that CAESAR or maybe another development derived from it might fly on the Typhoon next year, possibly on IPA3 or ISPA3 (depending on when it gets ready), though IPA1 & 5 might be additional candidates. 
 
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MK       11/26/2009 4:01:21 PM
BTW as we had the topic earlier. It has been confirmed that the 9 Rafale F1 aircraft currently stored will be upgraded to F3 standard. The deal is worth 300 mln ?.
 
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