Brimstone in Afghanistan

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Lynstyne 11/1/2009 6:47:05 AM

Its not as if its unusual to Mallet a sniper (Unfortunatly the media calls any gunman a sniper)

Artillary and Mortars are approved methods, i believe the finns used to sucker the soviet snipers into firing then return fire with large calibre anti tank weapons. and unless ive been lied to for many years well concealed proffesional argentine snipers in the mountains were very difficult to deal with - right up until the point a milan unit got into firing position. (By all accounts a near miss on the hide was enough). (calling Bob - theres a Man whos gonna now for sure)

So why any spec warry or proffessional would be suprised that an antitank weapon was used to deal with (what in all probability was) a well concealed and protected fighting position is beyond me.

At this point he strikes me as Trolling or lieing..

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gf0012-aust 11/1/2009 8:22:07 AM

there are any number of instances where B52's doing laps have been called in to do CAS with precision weapons. The most obvious that springs to mind is at Qala-i-Janghi. there's no shortage of similar events where fighters have been called in "danger close" to also deliver precision weapons.

then there is the prev aforementioned RussianSS-21 TBM launch used to kill the Chechyan leader, Dudayev - all based on trigging his last known mobile/cell phone transmission and then launching from over 80kms away.

the fact that BW tried to compare/equate effectiveness and utility with absolute weapons cost just makes him look rather lame - and look like a troll.

either way. good job with brimstone. go the poms.

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Bluewings12 11/1/2009 11:41:21 AM

??? What 's wrong with you Guys ?

I said that the Tornado and the Brimstone did a fine job (I quote) but that it was an expensive way to kill a single Taliban .

I can 't see anything wrong with that .

Now on the tactical PoV , it indeed does make sense because the goal has been archived : kill the target .

I urge you not to come to me with your BS about how things should be done on the ground as none of you (I believe) has ever been on the field in wartime . The only few SP posters who have been in service and been fighting wars in the last 20 years are not saying much and some of them are not posting anymore on SP . I rarely accept to debate such topics with civilians and what I did in the French SpecOps with the GIA (old CPA-10) during the 80's can 't be debated here on StrategyPage , bare few anecdotes . I shared few thing with people like ArmyRifle , Darth America and few others because they were in the business but that 's about it .

To my defense , we didn 't have anything close to Brimstone or JDAM or AASM during the 80 's .

""A Tornado fired one of the missiles at a Taliban insurgent who was firing on coalition troops from a so-called "murder hole" carved within the wall of a compound""

It is obviously a Taliban sniper (whatever the weapon he used) and the way to take out such threat is the A-B-C of the job , the basic . Against my 6 or 8 men Commando , the target would have had a very short life :

-1) Smoke grenade(s) while we take position under cover

-2) Sniper binome (2 men team) separated from the other men , in position and waiting for the smoke to disperse

-3) LRAC team (portable rocket launcher) and heavy machinegun team start fire at the same time against the enemy "murder hole" (one might get shot at)

-4) Sniper team (me and my observer) wait to finish the job if the enemy sniper does show up again .

End of story .

That's the way we worked in the 80 's .

Cheers .

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Lynstyne 11/1/2009 11:53:28 AM

??? What 's wrong with you Guys ?

I said that the Tornado and the Brimstone did a fine job (I quote) but that it was an expensive way to kill a single Taliban .

I can 't see anything wrong with that .

Now on the tactical PoV , it indeed does make sense because the goal has been archived : kill the target .

To my defense , we didn 't have anything close to Brimstone or JDAM or AASM during the 80 's .

""A Tornado fired one of the missiles at a Taliban insurgent who was firing on coalition troops from a so-called "murder hole" carved within the wall of a compound""

-1) Smoke grenade(s) while we take position under cover

-2) Sniper binome (2 men team) separated from the other men , in position and waiting for the smoke to disperse

-3) LRAC team (portable rocket launcher) and heavy machinegun team start fire at the same time against the enemy "murder hole" (one might get shot at)

-4) Sniper team (me and my observer) wait to finish the job if the enemy sniper does show up again .

End of story .

That's the way we worked in the 80 's .

Cheers .

Firstly You do not know who has or hasnt served
Secondly you said its expensive why not use a bullet you were the one critisising the method. im sure you were probably working up to a method where a french infantry squad would have crept up on him using active cancellation then thanks to there superiour agility taken him out in a knife fight.

thirdly Nobody but nobody gave you any BS all any one effectivly said was it makes sense to use the tools to hand regardles of cost.

Oh and as for a 9mm against a sniper that made you sound like an idiot.

In fact re - read my post my so called BS was simply a few examples of historic precedent.

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Lynstyne 11/1/2009 12:50:01 PM

???

I urge you not to come to me with your BS about how things should be done on the ground as none of you (I believe) has ever been on the field in wartime .

Fourthly with regard to the above POT KETTLE BLACK that statement has left you wide open for this one

I urge you not to come to me with your BS about how things are done on anaircraft of you (I believe) have never worked on an aircraft or flown one.

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gf0012-aust 11/3/2009 2:30:24 AM

what I did in the French SpecOps with the GIA (old CPA-10) during the 80's can 't be debated here on StrategyPage ,

IIRC you said this year that you were in your mid 40's? 46 IRC??

if so that means that in 1985 you would have been 21-22 years old. You refer to "your commandos" so that implies a leadership role.

my understanding (and from discussions with the French MLO based here) is that the French, (like the Brits, Australians, Kiwis and Canucks) prefer their SF leaders to be older.

you must have been one of the youngest team leaders they've had.

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Bluewings12 11/3/2009 1:47:25 PM

gf , I am indeed 46 (I was born in 1963) . I signed up with the French AirForce Commandos in early 1981 .

After 4 months I became Corporal then Staff Corporal 3 months later , by 1983 I was a Sergeant . Then I became what we call in France Sergent de Carrière , which is rather similar to a Staff Sergeant (SSG E-6 in the US Army) .

As such , I was either in charge of a Squad or second Leader in a Platoon .

It is not unusual to archive this grade in the French Commandos after 5 years in service ...

Lynstyne :

""I urge you not to come to me with your BS about how things are done on anaircraft of you (I believe) have never worked on an aircraft or flown one.""

Duely noted . However , the Dassault Rafale is a bit of a hobby for me (and Fighters in general) so excuse me to know my "bit" about it . I remind people that I 've never said to be a pilot or anyone having a professional background in aviation .

Cheers .

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Lynstyne 11/3/2009 2:20:28 PM

In my view Every body is entitled to an opinion - My response was more to emphasise the point that you cannot expect free speech??? on a subject which by youre own admission you have no real knowledge but then demand that people dont mae comment on a subject that you believe they are not experts in.

It smacks of double standards and that is my soap box issue..

Also - Pay heed to what is written in response to youre posts - sometimes you will learn things, especially on the aviation section - sometimes you have been given very good reasons as to why you are mistaken.

I am happy to be corrected (as are many others) providing its all done in a constructive manner.

And yes I know im perfectly capable of launching into unconstructive Sarcasm.

Hey nobodys perfect

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Bluewings12 11/3/2009 4:36:56 PM

Lynstyne :

""Also - Pay heed to what is written in response to youre posts - sometimes you will learn things""

Most of the time (depending on the poster , I admit) I read posts very carefully and I don 't jump on the keyboard like a chimp . You know what , since I 've been on SP (7 years I think) I 've learned plenty from various posters . I couldn 't name them all .

You know me a bit by now Lynstyne , I mostly try to counter the bias because it helps no one .

I 've been wrong in many occasions in these last 7 years and when I can cross-proof the fact(s) posted against mine(s) and clearly understand the situation at hand , I accept my wrong and always say so . I can be hot blooded but I really try to be honest . Just in between you and me (if I may say here) , I always read your posts carefully and I am sure that you have noticed .

Cheers .

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jackjack 11/3/2009 8:11:22 PM

"I accept my wrong and always say so "

that sounds great bw, perhaps you can pick up the Dassault VP topic and show us where it isnt a bracket but your claimed 1/2 cm of ram

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