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Subject: Dassault VP : Rafale's successor will join Eurofighter Consortium-like Euro Consortium.
SlowMan    10/19/2009 4:07:06 PM
New York Times article < link > "Dassault appears to be thinking along the same lines. Eric Trappier, executive vice president at Dassault Aviation, said that Rafale?s ?successor will probably be designed through a European cooperation, from 2025.? " So this is the end of all-French fighter aircraft.
 
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MK       10/29/2009 3:16:23 PM

The F-16 has a frameless canopy, and it operates at low level.  It's not a gamebreaker for the Rafale, of course--I'm just curious why a frameless canopy wasn't considered.

 

I would also think that RAM coating on the very tip of the probe would end up being rubbed off over time.


If you take it correctly the F-16 doesn't have a frameless canopy. There is a fixed part and a metal frame in the rear. And while the F-16 might operate down low nowadays it wasn't designed to operate there. The early F-16s didn't even feature a radar altimeter, let alone any low level flight relevant equipment.
 
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gf0012-aust       10/29/2009 3:36:00 PM

I would also think that RAM coating on the very tip of the probe would end up being rubbed off over time.

its not RAM coated.  RAM isn't like teflon - and you'd need it to have the properties of teflon if it was going to be applied on that loc.
 
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Lynstyne       10/29/2009 3:38:08 PM
Does the F22  have a frame less canopy?? cant see on the pics ive found - perhaps its a function of size if the canopies are larger??.
 
I believe the probe has to be metal for more electrical reasons.
 
You do not want a big static discharge between refueler and receiver so you need good electrical contact ie metal to metal between the two.
 
lightning strikes may also be a factor.
 
next time youre at an airport have a look at the refuelling ops they allways bond the aircraft to the tanker  (or should) to ensure they are at the same potential.  in flight the problems even greater and as for rotary wing they. !
 
Now WRT the above i may be wrong (perhaps the french have devised a highly conductive non radar reflective polymer ) but on this im pretty sure im correct (for once).
 
 
Incidently composite aircraft are an arse bonding wise in general.
 
 
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MK       10/29/2009 3:55:42 PM
The F-22 has no metal frame on its canopy and it's truely a single piece canopy.
 
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Lynstyne       10/29/2009 4:00:43 PM
next guess was cost
 
 
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MK       10/29/2009 4:09:05 PM
The F-22 has no metal frame on its canopy and it's truely a single piece canopy.
 
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Hamilcar       10/29/2009 7:41:50 PM




If you're talking about the ball on the end of the probe, that's the hookup for the drogue basket.



 



Why didn't the French go for a frameless canopy on the Rafale?  I'm sure they had a good reason, but that's got to interfere with pilot vision.






It won't obscure the the view more than the metal frame on the Hornet, Gripen, Typhoon or Eagle. The reason for a seperate windscreen is probably the same as on the Typhoon, enough strength to provide bird strike protection during low level operations.
Quite correct, plus, the need for a shatter cap for an ejection event as well as some bullet proofing. Sometimes sectional canopies work better. Not every solution Dassault chose was unreasonable, its just that they market without the actual truth: about what they do (make a fighter for a Gabon threat) something like LockMart did with the F-22.
 
The SM-1 hit the drone on auto. It worked even if it was bever intended to be the chaser, MK. The Mica coupldn't acquure which was why the SM-1 fired to kill the drone, instead.  The Taipei Times referred to this obliquely. The MICA was an IR version.  
 
 
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Hamilcar    Some RAM coatings and fuel don't mix.   10/29/2009 7:44:00 PM
Jet fuel is a fairly good SOLVENT.
 
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MK       10/30/2009 4:46:23 AM

The SM-1 hit the drone on auto. It worked even if it was bever intended to be the chaser, MK. The Mica coupldn't acquure which was why the SM-1 fired to kill the drone, instead.  The Taipei Times referred to this obliquely. The MICA was an IR version.  

The article you linked to stated nothing which supports your assertion, it claims what I have quoted and underlined. It is nowhere stated that it was a MICA IR or that its seeker failed to acquire the target. It was the SM-I whose seeker selected another target and destroyed it. You make up things here by misreading what was actually stated.
 
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Lynstyne       10/30/2009 8:38:43 AM

next guess was cost

 


That was in reference to Canopy.
Not knowing a great deal about RAM I dont know how it reacts to Jet fuel, however knowing how Kero, Hydraulic fluid and various cleaning Solvents can damage some materials, I see no reason to doubtHamilcar on this.
 
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