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Subject: Dassault VP : Rafale's successor will join Eurofighter Consortium-like Euro Consortium.
SlowMan    10/19/2009 4:07:06 PM
New York Times article < http://www.nytimes.com/2009/10/20/business/global/20jets.html?_r=1&pagewanted=2 > "Dassault appears to be thinking along the same lines. Eric Trappier, executive vice president at Dassault Aviation, said that Rafale’s “successor will probably be designed through a European cooperation, from 2025.” " So this is the end of all-French fighter aircraft.
 
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Bluewings12       10/19/2009 4:41:52 PM
Eric Trappier is probably right (for now) because of many reasons like Integration , Coast , Ease of maintenance , etc .
Europe is now a living being and will be so for the foreseeable futur .
 
""So this is the end of all-French fighter aircraft."""
 
Not at all . Dassault will still be Leader in Europe in 2025 and by miles .
 
Cheers .
 
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SlowMan       10/19/2009 5:00:36 PM
@ Bluewings12

> Not at all . Dassault will still be Leader in Europe in 2025 and by miles.

Considering how Typhoon came out to be superior to Rafale, that would mean a disaster.
 
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Bluewings12       10/19/2009 5:12:47 PM
SlowMan :
""Considering how Typhoon came out to be superior to Rafale, that would mean a disaster.""
 
Have you been drinking , mate ?
 
Cheers .
 
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french stratege       10/19/2009 6:50:48 PM
Making collaborative programs is not end at all of Dassault and french aircrafts.
Moreover if it is not feasible, we could still switch to a all french program like with the Rafale.
 
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sentinel28a       10/19/2009 7:08:52 PM
Wonder of wonders, I find myself in agreement with FS.  The French have always pursued an independent course, for good or bad.  If the next European fighter isn't what France wants--or, as BW hints, Dassault doesn't have the lead in its development--France will be more than happy to pursue their own course.  The Rafale was born out of French concerns over the Eurofighter project, both IMHO for good reasons (the Aeronavale had to have a replacement for the aging Super Etendard and ancient F-8) and bad (the UK, Germany, and Italy weren't willing to kiss Dassault's ass enough).
 
Either way, I can understand and applaud France if they decide to go solo on this.  It makes sense.  While Europe has had some real winners in committee-designed aircraft (the Jaguar, Tornado, and Typhoon), there's always the danger that it could end up with an early F-111--jack of all trades and master of none, which as I recall was also a fear with the Typhoon and remains one with the F-35.  You're going to want an aircraft tailored to what your country needs.
 
 
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french stratege       10/19/2009 7:47:48 PM
Decision would be post 2015 BTW and I don't see other Europeans launching a program before 2020 so for a 6th generation fighter produced after 2030.
Dassault is only speaking in a politically correct way.
Dassault has no reasons to drop investment in Rafale since it can be improved to match 5th generation needs and has received funding for that.
 
 
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SlowMan       10/19/2009 11:58:26 PM
The reason France pulled out of Eurofighter Consortium was because EC wanted to use Rolls-Royce's engine, while France insisted on Snecma engine for Eurpfighter. Now imagine Typhoon powered by M88 instead of EJ200 and you can see what an underpowered disaster Typhoon would turn out to be if EC gave into French demand.
 
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gf0012-aust       10/20/2009 2:10:05 AM
3  months ago I posted that either SAAB or Dassault would either fall or have to merge to survive.  That was based on an article in DefenceNews.

So much for those who said that it wasn't possible.
 
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usajoe1       10/20/2009 4:20:11 AM
The reason France pulled out of Eurofighter Consortium was because EC wanted to use Rolls-Royce's engine, while France insisted on Snecma engine for Eurpfighter. Now imagine Typhoon powered by M88 instead of EJ200 and you can see what an underpowered disaster Typhoon would turn out to be if EC gave into French demand.
 
That was one of many reasons. France also wanted a carrier MR fighter that would replace Air Force and Navy fighters.
EC wanted a ASF, with no need for carrier operation.. France also wanted a leading rolein the project.
 
The Typhoon turned out to be the second best A2A fighter in the world, and the Rafale; an overpriced, over-promised, and underfunded disaster, that put the final nail in the coffin of Dassault.
 
 
 
 
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Das Kardinal       10/20/2009 7:25:05 AM

 

The Typhoon turned out to be the second best A2A fighter in the world, and the Rafale; an overpriced, over-promised, and underfunded disaster, that put the final nail in the coffin of Dassault.

 

 


Not 100% sure it's actually as black and white as this... but instead of turning this into yet another Rafale vs Typhoon thread, it'd be more interesting to reflect on what could be a "Gen 6" European fighter (assuming, of course, that technological developments haven't made fighters obsolete by then) and who could design/build it. 
 
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