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Subject: Radar versus Stealth: Passive Radar and the Future of U.S. Military Power
RedParadize    10/16/2009 9:49:41 AM
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Hamilcar       10/17/2009 5:54:30 PM


To Hamilcar:

 


If you are not ready to do high school math, then you should not mess with the Doppler effect and blob algorithm. Specially when they are completely out of the subject.

Wrong my friend. Each radar designed has its own P minimum. Don't bluff me about this.  
 
If you have an opinion about this article and the general subject around it, feel free to share it with us. Without unneeded complex word or concept.

 I shared it with you. You did not understand concept and you tried to run a bluff. It didn't work.

about the little math, it point out that even on the X-band, there is way to pick a LO at long range, trough the improvement of captor,software, emission power etc.

 Again without seeking to offend anyone,  you don't know what you are talking about. There comes a practical peak power throughput limit where sidelobe noise interferes with signal gain at the receiver..There is also clocking which you ignore. That is 80% of the signal processing game to which you re3fer inaccu
rately.
 
You need this:
 

But a stronger emission have the annoying side effect of virtually placing a huge flashing neon sign on your ship that says: "LOOK AT ME! I'M HERE! SHOOT ME, SHOOT ME!!"

RBE2, but that is not a power throughput leakage, but a bad  PESA transmitter array design.
 
Hello Bluewing12

I think whe should stay concervative, after all, its all top secret technology. And there his alot of disinformation. 

IRST and other focused IR detection device have a limited capacity to detect a plane, LO or not. Because it cant cover a large portion of the sky. But Once a plane is approximatively located. It does enhance the capacity to track a LO plane, specially at high altitude where the atmosphere is less dense. Keep in mind that when LO plane like the raptor lunch a missile, he have to open his bay. Greatly reducing his RCS.

I don't think the focused IR detection technology is fully mature. But its clearly a "must have" feature.

I have a quick anecdote about disinformation:

I dont remember exacly the year but it was around 1993, I was very exited because whe where lucky enought tho have a F-117 at the Quebec International Airshow. I had the oportunity to talk to the pilot. I asked how fast the plane was. of course he could not answer. Like a 13 kid, I quickly told him everything I knowed about my favorite plane of the time: the SR-71 Black bird, ya i was young lol. And The Pilot told me that the F-117 was even faster then the SR-71. After a quick look on the plane, i turn to him and said: its not possible, the plane is not aerodinamic enought! the pilot smiled and said "Are you sure?" I looked the plane again and start to wounder what i didnt know.

American Pilot: 1

Little Kid:          0

as you say:

Cheers
 


 
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Bluewings12       10/17/2009 6:13:18 PM
Hamilcar , you sounds like Herald ... Strange isn 't it ?

Could you explain to us why the PESA RBE2 is a bad transmitter array design ?
 
Cheers .
 
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RedParadize       10/17/2009 7:42:45 PM

If you are not ready to do high school math, then you should not mess with the Doppler effect and blob algorithm. Specially when they are completely out of the subject.

Wrong my friend. Each radar designed has its own P minimum. Don't bluff me about this.  
 
Humm ok.... What happen if the radar was not designed and have a N maximum? Seriously...  P minimum, out of its context it could mean anything. But you probably mean transmitted power(Pt)  minimum
 
And what it have to do with high school math?
And why are you out of the subject again?
 
I said:
about the little math, it point out that even on the X-band, there is way to pick a LO at long range, trough the improvement of captor,software, emission power etc.


You answer:
 Again without seeking to offend anyone,  you don't know what you are talking about. There comes a practical peak power throughput limit where sidelobe noise interferes with signal gain at the receiver..There is also clocking which you ignore. That is 80% of the signal processing game to which you re3fer inaccurately.
 
OK...  Look the link you send to me
link

Emission power: 
Look all equation, and you will see that transmitted power(Pt) is always a multiplicator.
thats mean, more powerful is the Pt, more powerful the echo will be.
 
Captor: (The real name is receiver)
Look under the topic Angular resolution and range resolution
Read the first line and the equation that follow
Improving the size of your antenna will effectively improve the resolution of your receiver(captor)

Software:
Look under the topic Angular resolution and range resolution, Paragraph 8
Improving the software will improve the capacity to discriminate noise and target.
whatever if it use a "Dopplerized Blob algorithm clocked Signal processing" that you like so much or a more conventional (and less Fictional) Barker Code.
 
In regard of the link you send me, my statement was correct.
 
The debate about how work radar is not exactly what whe are talking about here. This topic is about the article: Radar versus Stealth: Passive Radar and the Future of U.S. Military Power.
 
So please, stick to the subject. or create another topic about your "Dopplerized Blob algorithm clocked Signal processing"
 

 
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Hamilcar       10/17/2009 9:45:40 PM



If you are not ready to do high school math, then you should not mess with the Doppler effect and blob algorithm. Specially when they are completely out of the subject.

Wrong my friend. Each radar designed has its own P minimum. Don't bluff me about this.  

Humm ok.... What happen if the radar was not designed and have a N maximum? Seriously...  P minimum, out of its context it could mean anything. But you probably mean transmitted power(Pt)  minimum

 There is no N maximum. P minimum is the detection thrrshhold limit of the antenna in question.
 
And what it have to do with high school math?

And why are you out of the subject again?

It is in subject again because without it, the radar equation doesn't work.
 

I said:

about the little math, it point out that even on the X-band, there is way to pick a LO at long range, trough the improvement of captor,software, emission power etc.

You answer:

 Again without seeking to offend anyone,  you don't know what you are talking about. There comes a practical peak power throughput limit where side-lobe noise interferes with signal gain at the receiver..There is also clocking which you ignore. That is 80% of the signal processing game to which you re3fer inaccurately.

OK...  Look the link you send to me

link...

Emission power: 

Look all equation, and you will see that transmitted power(Pt) is always a multiplicator.

Of course it is. Its quantum limited. Temember when I asked you if you knew what a light wave was?

thats mean, more powerful is the Pt, more powerful the echo will be.

Wrong.  It actually means to get double the range you have to roughly quadruple the power depending on beam dispersion.
 
Captor: (The real name is receiver)

Argue with the author. Its a  device to capture a return. He calls it a captor. Its technically correct when you talk about LIGHT..  
Look under the topic Angular resolution and range resolution" src="/CuteSoft_Client/CuteEditor/Images/anchor.gif">

Read the first line and the equation that follow

Improving the size of your antenna will effectively improve the resolution of your receiver(captor)

" src="/CuteSoft_Client/CuteEditor/Images/anchor.gif">

Well, that is rather obvious. If you increase the area of a receiver you gather in more photons.

Software:

Look under the topic Angular resolution and range resolution, Paragraph 8

Improving the software will improve the capacity to discriminate noise and target.

whatever if it use a "Dopplerized Blob algorithm clocked Signal processing" that you like so much or a more conventional (and less Fictional) Barker Code.

 The Barker Code is a modulation schema a ratio that allows  COMPRESSION of a siganl form so that it can be measuref. Since this too is quantized, there are only so many ordered ratios for a given frequency to compress (fortunately or we wouldn't be able to clock match and time reverse using digitization)  

In regard of the link you send me, my statement was correct.

You read i
 
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RedParadize       10/17/2009 10:56:33 PM
N maximum was sarcastic way to point out that P minimum don't mean that much out of its context.
 
Argue with the author. Its a  device to capture a return. He calls it a captor. Its technically correct when you talk about LIGHT.. 
 
The use of the word Captor was my mistake. The author don't use Captor at all. He use the word receiver... so i guess you didn't fully read his artice. And by the way, Radar don't use light. it use electron: RAdio Detection And Ranging
 
I don't fully and deeply understand how Radar works, and i don't pretend to be an expert. But i clearly see that you are not an expert too.
 
Now that whe have finish about that, can whe go back to the subject? Anyone else have a opinion about the Radar versus Stealth: Passive Radar and the Future of U.S. Military Power. ?
 
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gf0012-aust       10/17/2009 11:05:18 PM

The use of the word Captor was my mistake. The author don't use Captor at all. He use the word receiver... so i guess you didn't fully read his artice. And by the way, Radar don't use light. it use electron: RAdio Detection And Ranging


 in contemp technology electrons in radar are regarded as a related lightwave technology - they emit light and carry current.. 
 
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RedParadize       10/17/2009 11:39:36 PM
Don't confound wavelenght and lightwave. If by "related lightwave technology" you mean that light and Radio are in electromagnetic spectrum, ya its true. but dont forget Radar are not designed to "see" light and if it emit something else then radio its a very undesired sideffect. Detecting radio, IR, visible light, X-ray amd gamma ray imply a completly different set of technology.
 
 
 
 
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Hamilcar    The spectrum.   10/17/2009 11:45:37 PM

N maximum was sarcastic way to point out that P minimum don't mean that much out of its context.

Its a standard term in the radar equation.  You;didn't know it.

Argue with the author. Its a  device to capture a return. He calls it a captor. Its technically correct when you talk about LIGHT..
 
The use of the word Captor was my mistake. The author don't use Captor at all. He use the word receiver... so i guess you didn't fully read his artice. And by the way, Radar don't use light. it use electron: RAdio Detection And Ranging

I don't fully and deeply understand how Radar works, and i don't pretend to be an expert. But i clearly see that you are not an expert too.
 
Now that whe have finish about that, can whe go back to the subject? Anyone else have a opinion about the Radar versus Stealth: Passive Radar and the Future of U.S. Military Power. ?

1. He did use the term for an antenna function. You did not understand ot read clearly as an antenna does "capture" photons .
2.
 
 
 
Do you see that electromagnetic spectrum diagram above? What does it say? Radar uses photons (a boson) not electrons. I think we have your exact measure now, don't we?
 
Best you learn some basic science and quit pretending to understand what you don't when its spelled out in plain English. As I said if you don't know, ask   It was obvious from the very beginning that you didn't know the first thing about radar or LIGHT.
 
Again I'm done with you. 
 
 
 
 
 
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gf0012-aust       10/17/2009 11:49:18 PM

Don't confound wavelenght and lightwave. If by "related lightwave technology" you mean that light and Radio are in electromagnetic spectrum, ya its true. but dont forget Radar are not designed to "see" light and if it emit something else then radio its a very undesired sideffect. Detecting radio, IR, visible light, X-ray amd gamma ray imply a completly different set of technology.


I'm not  AESA radar systems are regarded as a discrete weapons solution.  thats because of the way that the radar can be managed. 

Looking at RADAR via its original acronym ignores the fact that in contemp terms, radar in an active array is a managed system that can be active and offensive.  these characteristics hinge around the fact that it works around lightwaves as the vehicle of transport.
Original radar was never able to be an offensive system unless some tech turned off his brain and stood in front of the dish. You need to look at Radar through the prism of what it is now - not what its original "design brief" made it appear to be.  The fact that Radar is a transmitting system is hilighted by the fact that in prev generations it was killed by systems such as HARM which rode the signal down to kill the emitter.  The emitter is "light".  The contents of that "light" may change, but its still a definable spectrum/wavelength/waveguide.

 


 

 
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Hamilcar       10/17/2009 11:54:18 PM



The use of the word Captor was my mistake. The author don't use Captor at all. He use the word receiver... so i guess you didn't fully read his artice. And by the way, Radar don't use light. it use electron: RAdio Detection And Ranging






 in contemp technology electrons in radar are regarded as a related lightwave technology - they emit light and carry current.. 



Electrons exchange bosons called photons. Its how a radar beam can reach the Moon and cause a return signal. ;-). The gap in physics, is called an "interval", the exchange, itself, is called an "event".
 
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