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Subject: US demands Japan $10 million for the access to F-35 capability information
SlowMan    10/4/2009 11:44:49 AM
< link > "U.S. asks Japan to pay Y1 bil for fighter jet info Sunday 04th October, 10:53 AM JST TOKYO — The U.S. government has asked Japan to pay around 1 billion yen for information related to the capabilities of the U.S. F-35 fighter jet, a leading candidate for JapanĄŻs next-generation mainstay fighter, sources close to Japan-U.S. relations said Saturday. The U.S. side has also told Japan that Washington will provide information on the jetĄŻs stealth capabilities for evading radar detection once Tokyo makes a decision to purchase the fighter jet, the sources said." Well, the US DoD is pushing Japan into the arms of Eurofighter...
 
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SlowMan       10/5/2009 3:17:14 PM
@ Rufus

> link />
Thank you very much for the link, I was looking for that one.

That link includes Boeing's statement of a well-known fact that  international version of F-35 is downgraded, which has been reiterated from many sources including a foreign government negotiator for F-35.

> I state categorically that I am not doing a different variant of aircraft for my international partners today

Well, he didn't say tomorrow, meaning "the product differentiation" isn't in place yet. ( ^_^ ) Upgrade is hard, but downgrade is quick and easy.

> but the aircraft being sold today were the same airplanes that were also being built for the U.S. military services.

The only ones that are buying today in LRIP are the like USAF, USMC, USN, RAF and RAN; the ones that would receive full US-spec planes. Only countries that would get US-spec planes are ones like UK, Israel, and possibly Australia. The rest aren't as fortunate.
 
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SlowMan       10/5/2009 3:26:25 PM
@ YelliChink

> 10 million dollar is just a drop in the bucket for what they are willing to pay.

It's not the amount of fee that is the problem, but the very fact that the US is charging that fee in what is supposed to be an open competition.

If it was F-22's capability information fee, then Japan would have wired that money the next day. But since it is F-35, the plane is considered nothing special(basically not good enough for Japan) and it must compete with other candiates to win the F-X competition.

The very fact that this "average-looking" girl is demanding to be pampered like that supermodel who left the town is what's angering Japanese public.

> they will get some partnership in later projects and integration with their own system.

Not even Israel can't get that kind of rights, so why do you expect Japan to?

> How much we Taiwans have paid for the subs we are promised but won't get anyway? Like $200 million for "study and initial design?"

Well, that's just Taiwan. No one dares to sell weapons to Taiwan with China breathing down their neck. Driving a truck in the US is a low-wage job, but driving same truck in Iraq or Afghanistan is a high-wage job.
 
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Bluewings12       10/5/2009 3:34:19 PM
Since this thread began , I am watching the little "fight" SlowMan versus gf .
 
gf , you 're nowhere . SlowMan , you win easily .
 
gf , I am sorry to say but you are the one trolling about the F-35 , mate . SlowMan is often wrong but here , he has a case .
Just a couple : (SlowMan)
""And every customer who wants a small fleet of it must pay $10 million just to gain access to spec document for purchase evaluation when the other guys provide for free? How is that gonna work when the capability gap bewtween the export grade F-35 and other low-RCS 4.5-gen fighters is so small?""
 
gf , your response :
""ROFLMAO  you have no idea about platform technologies and you're passing comment about capability gap and costings?  LOL  get a grip.
 
It is you who should get a grip gf . Every word SlowMan said in this sentence is true and correct . I can understand (and many others more knowleadgeable than me) that the F-35 Partners are divided . Some still trust the program (?) , some are worried and others could well decide to bugger off .
 
Now , I know that I am going to get insulted for what I am going to say :
The F-35 will be remembered as the worse aircraft the USA ever made during the 2000 technological era . It is bound to have many problems who will make the aircraft worse than the Harrier with even more losses than the latest . The program , the idea behind the program and the aircraft itself will be remembered as a failure .
 
I sign my deposition :
BW .
 
Cheers .
 
 
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Rufus       10/5/2009 3:45:58 PM
"That link includes Boeing's statement of a well-known fact that  international version of F-35 is downgraded, which has been reiterated from many sources including a foreign government negotiator for F-35."

You area really something kid... Boeing is Lockheed's competitor and was spreading around the usual BS trying to find some sales for their own plane.
 
It is most certainly not "a well known fact" that there is any downgraded F-35 version and as I have already pointed out more than once you have failed to produce even a single credible report supporting your idiotic little theory.
 
Anyone with any integrity would find the quotes from the supposed "foreign government negotiators" you claim to have read, or retract their claim.
 
 
 

 
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SlowMan       10/5/2009 3:55:33 PM
@ Rufus

> Boeing is Lockheed's competitor and was spreading around the usual BS trying to find some sales for their own plane.

And the Korean DoD official who heard briefings by both side with Boeing. His conclusion was that both are useless, and they may have to just buy more F-15K and rely on first-day strike on cruise missiles, UAVs, and 100 km glide bombs instead.

> It is most certainly not "a well known fact" that there is any downgraded F-35 version

Refer to "F-15 Silent Eagle" thread for a major difference between USAF spec model and export grade model.
 
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gf0012-aust       10/5/2009 4:10:29 PM

Since this thread began , I am watching the little "fight" SlowMan versus gf .

gf , you 're nowhere . SlowMan , you win easily .

 
LOL, the fact that you support slowman over someone who does work in the industry, who's actually been in the game for over 30 years and who does actually attend official functions, and is involved in procurement, who has been involved in weapons dev progs says much.

you're an idiot. don't pretend to be something else.

need I point out the number of times you've had to be corrected because you didn't understand weapons and technical concepts and then tried to deflect it by asking more inane questions in the vain attempt to be credible.

the fact that you abide by some silly kid who can't even source relevant material, who extolls the virtue and credibiliy of a BBS presence over people who do have a clue says much.

congrats, your back to being my fav adult troll.
 
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sentinel28a       10/5/2009 4:29:43 PM


 

Hatoyama's current approval rating in Japan is whopping 71%. This empowers Hatoyama to successfully carry out his anti-America agenda. Hatoyama will have full Japanese backing when he selects Typhoon for F-X, claiming that Typhoon is a better deal for money including a full license production program not available with F-35.


 





Well, he's probably right in doing so.  If we're not going to give "I Hate America" Hatoyama the F-35 in 2014, the Typhoon, which he can get right now, probably would be a better choice for Japan.
Geez.  Anybody taken a look at Hatoyama's programs?  The Japanese liked Obama so much they elected their very own version of him.
 
I give him, oh, about a year.
 
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gf0012-aust       10/5/2009 4:36:28 PM
gf , you 're nowhere . SlowMan , you win easily .

I would add, that the fact that you see serious discussion a a form of "winning" demonstrates your mental age clearly to everyone.
 
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sentinel28a       10/5/2009 5:45:19 PM

Winning an internet fight is like wrestling a pig in public.  You may win, but you will get dirty, you will annoy the pig, and you will look stupid.

That said, I hope I win my next internet tough guy match...

 
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Bluewings12       10/5/2009 7:43:10 PM
gf :
""LOL, the fact that you support slowman""
 
I support anyone who has good common sense and slowman (this time) had some , not you .

""over someone who does work in the industry, who's actually been in the game for over 30 years and who does actually attend official functions, and is involved in procurement, who has been involved in weapons dev progs says much.""
 
Is it all you can find ? To put it bluntly gf , I believe that you 're a scarecrow . We 're on the Net mate , if you don 't talk about proper experience soundly , you 're no one . This is how the Net is gf and your arguments don 't hold water enough to be noticeable .
For quite some time (remember our different debates about MBTs , back in the old days around 2005) , I believed that you were what you say to be . It took me almost a year to understand that I was foolish to trust you . Whatever you do or whatever official fonction you have , you only have a superficial knowledge on fighters .
So please , don 't even try to lecture me on the F-35 or on any other fighter .
 
I apologize to the other members of the forum but it has to do with the F-35 .
Myself , I am very amused at the Japanese request . I know the reason why Japan is asking for infos on the aircraft and I also understand the stupidity of the Japanese . But this is another story ...
 
Cheers . 

 
 
 
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