Korean gov making an F-22 buy offer that maybe hard to refuse for Obama administration

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sentinel28a 9/25/2009 3:45:12 PM

It also puts Beijing within range, which I think the US is far more worried about--the Chinese get antsy when someone points MRBMs at them. I don't know why we wouldn't sell SSNs to the ROK Navy, however, though in the environment they operate in, a diesel-electric boat might be better and more efficient.

I would hope that the ROKAF would get F-22s if it is decided to export them. They've been good allies and can be trusted with the Raptor. And we could certainly use the elite ROK Marines in Afghanistan; they are very, very good. I'd almost rank them as high as the Gurkhas.

Slow, your first sentence is ambigious. The ROKAF's never operated F-117s; were you trying to say that the ROKAF would like the F-22 to replace the since-withdrawn USAF F-117s that would've been tasked with destroying North Korea's nukes?

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Rufus 9/25/2009 4:10:01 PM

"Slow, your first sentence is ambigious. The ROKAF's never operated F-117s; were you trying to say that the ROKAF would like the F-22 to replace the since-withdrawn USAF F-117s that would've been tasked with destroying North Korea's nukes?"

That is hardly his biggest error... there is of course no "US imposed" restriction of any kind on the range of Korean ballistic missiles or nuclear submarines. That is just more of his idiotic misunderstanding of things.

Korea can develop any kind of ballistic missile it wants. It can also develop nuclear powered submarines if it wants. The US will not try to stop either. The US won't sell the technology... but that doesn't prevent Korea from developing it itself.

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SlowMan 9/25/2009 4:41:29 PM

@ sentinel28a

> It also puts Beijing within range

Of course they want to bomb both Beijing and Tokyo. East Asia is a dangerous place, where their are no allies and every country is a potential combatant against each other.

> I don't know why we wouldn't sell SSNs to the ROK Navy, however

They don't want to buy US nuclear subs; they have all the pieces ready; sub hull, a compact nuclear reactor(only 6 m tall and currently being marketed as a civilian reactor to arab countries, but can be used to power nuclear subs at any moment), combat system lifted from SSX-3 AIP sub. What they want is the lifting of US ban on their nuclear sub construction, similar to how Japan is seeking the lifting of US ban on their nuclear subs and aircraft carriers.

> The ROKAF's never operated F-117s; were you trying to say that the ROKAF would like the F-22 to replace the since-withdrawn USAF F-117s that would've been tasked with destroying North Korea's nukes?

The US used to periodically station F-117s in Korea and actually flew missions across DMZ and into North Korea, the last one being June 2005. Now that F-117s are gone, Korean DoD wants something else to replace that capability because that stealth strike capability doesn't exist anymore between them and the USAF when they need it more than ever. Of course this is just a cover to get F-22 as a counter-measure against JASDF and Chinese Airforce.

Under the current budget and arms build-up plan, from now until 2015 is the only time Korean Airforce could acquire F-22, because their plan calls for redirecting all new fighter acquisition funding to KFX thereafter. Similar thing is already happening in their helicopter program, where KUH Surion is eating up every other helicopter program to grow into a 800 unit program. The joke over there is that they would soon be seeing KFX buddy tanker, KFX mini AWACs, KFX business jet, etc.

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sentinel28a 9/25/2009 4:50:06 PM

The US used to periodically station F-117s in Korea and actually flew missions across DMZ and into North Korea, the last one being June 2005.

I'd like to see some proof of these crossborder missions.

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SlowMan 9/25/2009 4:58:39 PM

@ Rufus

> there is of course no "US imposed" restriction of any kind on the range of Korean ballistic missiles

< link > "A 2001 agreement with the United States prohibits South Korea from fielding missiles that can fly farther than 186 miles and carry payloads weighing more than about 1,100 pounds."

> nuclear submarines.

< link > "A South Korean nuclear-powered submarine would require enriched uranium fuel, which would raise a host of issues. The ability to enrich uranium would not only provide South Korea with the means for producing fuel for nuclear submarines; it could also be used for producing highly enriched uranium, usable for nuclear weapons. Seoul has long refrained from enriching uranium domestically, as part of its broader program of nuclear cooperation with the United States, from which it purchases enriched uranium for its nuclear power plants. At a time when the United States is seeking to halt the spread of enrichment capabilities to additional states, a South Korean decision to build a uranium enrichment facility would certainly roil relations with Washington."

> Korea can develop any kind of ballistic missile it wants. It can also develop nuclear powered submarines if it wants. The US will not try to stop either.

So you don't know much about how the US State Department and White House conduct their business around the world.

It has, and it will continue to.

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SlowMan 9/25/2009 5:13:44 PM

@ sentinel28a

> I'd like to see some proof of these crossborder missions.

< link > F-117 pilot Michael Driscol remembers his North Korean mission as the most memorable mission in his career.

From the accounts, USAF F-117 flew over North Korea several times, one of most infamous one being 15 units flying into North Korea, then diving to let the North Koreans on the ground to know they are there.

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sentinel28a 9/26/2009 5:18:48 AM

It's in Hangul, so I can't read the article. It's news to me, and I follow developments in the US pretty closely. It's possible, though.

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Heorot Sentinel 9/26/2009 6:16:24 AM

Babelfish will translate the article if you feed in the URL. It's a VERY bad translation though.

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Heorot Sentinel 9/26/2009 7:40:30 AM

Babelfish will translate the article if you feed in the URL. It's a VERY bad translation though.

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SlowMan 9/26/2009 11:36:26 AM

@ sentinel28a

> It's news to me

Well, a lot of stuff is news to you. This is why being stuck in single language puts you in a great disadvantage. Anyhow, I kinda figured out what this "Let us buy F-22 to replace retired F-117" deal is all about.

1. There is a preemptive strike on North Korea war plan called OPLAN 5026 maintained by US Pacific Command. The original version called for use of only F-117 and B-2 to carry out preemptive surgical strike on hundreds of North Korean targets of high interest simultanously, such as nuclear facilities and Kim Jong Il himself.

2. F-117s have periodically flown into North Korea as a practice. The most infamous one was the one taken place on June 2005, when 15 F-117s flew into North Korea and dived at their intended positions to let North Koreans know they were there. The real reason for doing this according to insiders was to locate where Kim Jong Il was located, as the location with real Kim present would suddenly have increased radio traffic.

3. After that F-117 retired from service, and F-22 was named to fill F-117's role in revised OPLAN 5026.

4. F-22's production is now scheduled to end soon under Obama budget cut, leaving USAF with far fewer F-22s than they expected. Now there isn't enough F-22s to carry out OPLAN 5026, which requires at least 40 ~ 50 F-22s to execute.

5. Korean DoD is asking to buy required quantity of F-22 themselves if the USAF can't get them and is willing to bargain for it, like a marine deployment at Afghanistan as previously demanded by the US. Korean DoD thinks the US might take the bait because of current deteriorating situation in Afghanistan and a desperate need for troop reinforcement from anybody.

6. From the US's perspective, they could use F-22 sale to bargain with Japanese to offer them something other than money. It would be like "Koreans are willing to pay for F-22 with blood of their marines + MSRP, so what are you willing to give us for F-22? Money alone isn't good enough."

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