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Subject: Korean gov making an F-22 buy offer that maybe hard to refuse for Obama administration
SlowMan    9/25/2009 1:03:12 PM
Korean language article says Korean DoD has been asking to buy F-22 since late last year as a replacement for F-117A fleet whose stated mission was to bomb North Korean nuclear facilities. < link >

Insiders add more specifics about this bid under the table; Korean DoD will dispatch a large number of its marine corp to Afghanistan as repeatedly demanded by the Obama administration in exchange for F-22 export, similar to the deal in which the US gov sold F-4Ds to Korea in exchange for dispatch of Korean marines to Vietnam. The other option, if the F-22 buy bid doesn't succeed, is lifting of US imposed restriction on nuclear submarines and ballistic missile range(Koreans are demanding at least 700 km, which the US opposes because it puts Tokyo within range).
 
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sentinel28a       9/25/2009 3:45:12 PM
It also puts Beijing within range, which I think the US is far more worried about--the Chinese get antsy when someone points MRBMs at them.  I don't know why we wouldn't sell SSNs to the ROK Navy, however, though in the environment they operate in, a diesel-electric boat might be better and more efficient.
 
I would hope that the ROKAF would get F-22s if it is decided to export them.  They've been good allies and can be trusted with the Raptor.  And we could certainly use the elite ROK Marines in Afghanistan; they are very, very good.  I'd almost rank them as high as the Gurkhas.
 
Slow, your first sentence is ambigious.  The ROKAF's never operated F-117s; were you trying to say that the ROKAF would like the F-22 to replace the since-withdrawn USAF F-117s that would've been tasked with destroying North Korea's nukes?
 
 
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Rufus       9/25/2009 4:10:01 PM
"Slow, your first sentence is ambigious.  The ROKAF's never operated F-117s; were you trying to say that the ROKAF would like the F-22 to replace the since-withdrawn USAF F-117s that would've been tasked with destroying North Korea's nukes?"
 
 That is hardly his biggest error... there is of course no "US imposed" restriction of any kind on the range of Korean ballistic missiles or nuclear submarines.  That is just more of his idiotic misunderstanding of things.
 
Korea can develop any kind of ballistic missile it wants.  It can also develop nuclear powered submarines if it wants.  The US will not try to stop either.  The US won't sell the technology... but that doesn't prevent Korea from developing it itself.
 

 
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SlowMan       9/25/2009 4:41:29 PM
@ sentinel28a

> It also puts Beijing within range

Of course they want to bomb both Beijing and Tokyo. East Asia is a dangerous place, where their are no allies and every country is a potential combatant against each other.

> I don't know why we wouldn't sell SSNs to the ROK Navy, however

They don't want to buy US nuclear subs; they have all the pieces ready; sub hull, a compact nuclear reactor(only 6 m tall and currently being marketed as a civilian reactor to arab countries, but can be used to power nuclear subs at any moment), combat system lifted from SSX-3 AIP sub. What they want is the lifting of US ban on their nuclear sub construction, similar to how Japan is seeking the lifting of US ban on their nuclear subs and aircraft carriers.

> The ROKAF's never operated F-117s; were you trying to say that the ROKAF would like the F-22 to replace the since-withdrawn USAF F-117s that would've been tasked with destroying North Korea's nukes?

The US used to periodically station F-117s in Korea and actually flew missions across DMZ and into North Korea, the last one being June 2005. Now that F-117s are gone, Korean DoD wants something else to replace that capability because that stealth strike capability doesn't exist anymore between them and the USAF when they need it more than ever. Of course this is just a cover to get F-22 as a counter-measure against JASDF and Chinese Airforce.

Under the current budget and arms build-up plan, from now until 2015 is the only time Korean Airforce could acquire F-22, because their plan calls for redirecting all new fighter acquisition funding to KFX thereafter. Similar thing is already happening in their helicopter program, where KUH Surion is eating up every other helicopter program to grow into a 800 unit program. The joke over there is that they would soon be seeing KFX buddy tanker, KFX mini AWACs, KFX business jet, etc.
 
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sentinel28a       9/25/2009 4:50:06 PM
The US used to periodically station F-117s in Korea and actually flew missions across DMZ and into North Korea, the last one being June 2005.
 
I'd like to see some proof of these crossborder missions.
 
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SlowMan       9/25/2009 4:58:39 PM
@ Rufus

> there is of course no "US imposed" restriction of any kind on the range of Korean ballistic missiles

< link > "A 2001 agreement with the United States prohibits South Korea from fielding missiles that can fly farther than 186 miles and carry payloads weighing more than about 1,100 pounds."

> nuclear submarines.

< link > "A South Korean nuclear-powered submarine would require enriched uranium fuel, which would raise a host of issues. The ability to enrich uranium would not only provide South Korea with the means for producing fuel for nuclear submarines; it could also be used for producing highly enriched uranium, usable for nuclear weapons. Seoul has long refrained from enriching uranium domestically, as part of its broader program of nuclear cooperation with the United States, from which it purchases enriched uranium for its nuclear power plants. At a time when the United States is seeking to halt the spread of enrichment capabilities to additional states, a South Korean decision to build a uranium enrichment facility would certainly roil relations with Washington."

> Korea can develop any kind of ballistic missile it wants. It can also develop nuclear powered submarines if it wants. The US will not try to stop either.

So you don't know much about how the US State Department and White House conduct their business around the world.

It has, and it will continue to.
 
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SlowMan       9/25/2009 5:13:44 PM
@ sentinel28a

> I'd like to see some proof of these crossborder missions.

< link > F-117 pilot Michael Driscol remembers his North Korean mission as the most memorable mission in his career.
 
From the accounts, USAF F-117 flew over North Korea several times, one of most infamous one being 15 units flying into North Korea, then diving to let the North Koreans on the ground to know they are there.
 
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sentinel28a       9/26/2009 5:18:48 AM
It's in Hangul, so I can't read the article.  It's news to me, and I follow developments in the US pretty closely.  It's possible, though.
 
 
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Heorot    Sentinel   9/26/2009 6:16:24 AM
Babelfish will translate the article if you feed in the URL. It's a VERY bad translation though.
 
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Heorot    Sentinel   9/26/2009 7:40:30 AM
Babelfish will translate the article if you feed in the URL. It's a VERY bad translation though.
 
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SlowMan       9/26/2009 11:36:26 AM
@ sentinel28a

> It's news to me

Well, a lot of stuff is news to you. This is why being stuck in single language puts you in a great disadvantage. Anyhow, I kinda figured out what this "Let us buy F-22 to replace retired F-117" deal is all about.

1. There is a preemptive strike on North Korea war plan called OPLAN 5026 maintained by US Pacific Command. The original version called for use of only F-117 and B-2 to carry out preemptive surgical strike on hundreds of North Korean targets of high interest simultanously, such as nuclear facilities and Kim Jong Il himself.

2. F-117s have periodically flown into North Korea as a practice. The most infamous one was the one taken place on June 2005, when 15 F-117s flew into North Korea and dived at their intended positions to let North Koreans know they were there. The real reason for doing this according to insiders was to locate where Kim Jong Il was located, as the location with real Kim present would suddenly have increased radio traffic.

3. After that F-117 retired from service, and F-22 was named to fill F-117's role in revised OPLAN 5026.  

4. F-22's production is now scheduled to end soon under Obama budget cut, leaving USAF with far fewer F-22s than they expected. Now there isn't enough F-22s to carry out OPLAN 5026, which requires at least 40 ~ 50 F-22s to execute.

5. Korean DoD is asking to buy required quantity of F-22 themselves if the USAF can't get them and is willing to bargain for it, like a marine deployment at Afghanistan as previously demanded by the US. Korean DoD thinks the US might take the bait because of current deteriorating situation in Afghanistan and a desperate need for troop reinforcement from anybody.

6. From the US's perspective, they could use F-22 sale to bargain with Japanese to offer them something other than money. It would be like "Koreans are willing to pay for F-22 with blood of their marines + MSRP, so what are you willing to give us for F-22? Money alone isn't good enough."
 
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sentinel28a       9/27/2009 2:27:39 AM
Yeah, a lot of stuff is news to me.  I read Aviation Week, Air Forces Monthly, and Air International, with their combined staffs of thousands, who are probably able to speak every language up to and including Pushtu--but hey, here's a completely unsourced article from a Korean source that proves I know nothing.  From a fanboy who's convinced that the Next Big War is between Korea and Japan.
 
Are you friends with Darth America?
 
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Beazz       9/27/2009 11:57:10 PM

It's in Hangul, so I can't read the article.  It's news to me, and I follow developments in the US pretty closely.  It's possible, though.

 



Just hit the *translate* button on the Google toolbar and it translates it very well. I am useing IE8 but I believe IE7 had this button as well. Below is the translation via google.
 
 
 
United States-US joint military exercises conducted since 2005 in the 00 stealth fighter jets to penetrate the North by the fact that the supply of copper was involved in the operation by the U.S. Air Force pilots were OK again.

F-117 stealth fighter pilot Michael Driscoll (Michael Driscol) Lieutenant professional acquaintances that recent U.S. military, Air Force Times in an interview with the mission of suhaenghaeon their "most memorable moment Kim Jong Il dictatorship that ruled the skies over North Korea whip (buzzing) I've been, "he said.

Switch to F-16 aircraft scheduled for the last mission Captain Driscoll said in an interview with the official retirement of the F-117 and Related, "a fighter in the meantime, I've been coming down every time you think the mission kkamadeukhal much," said his Accommodation refers to the taking of the F-117 ahswiun feelings were expressed.

Currently known in the United States vs. (&>3545;) Korea plan military operations both in the five U.S. Pacific Command (PACOM) is a subjective. Concrete operational plan include the Korean Peninsula 'precision strike plan' (jakgye 5026), 'full plan' (jakgye 5027), 'Concept Plan' (jakgye 5028), 'North Korea will collapse' (jakgye 5029), and the war as a preliminary step North Korea will shake (OPLAN 5030) and exists.

Jakgye (OPLAN) 5026, North Korea will collapse (5029) in conjunction with

Of limited precision in conjunction with the 5029 North jakgye (&>3545;&>1271;) strike plan 'jakgye 5026, 1st North Korean nuclear crisis, the plan was written JDAM (known as' smart bombs'), use the bomb, the dog, 612-756 The U.S. military's main facility is the operational plan to precision strikes.

Particularly to avoid war, and this plan is based on B-2 stealth bombers and F-117 stealth fighter mobilization, U.S. global strategy that sought to strike a base at the same time is.

'Jakgye 5026, &e651; a specific area of emergency ahead of the North Korean capital of Changsha Chung Po and precision attack to minimize the damage to the leadership of the regime &e651;' tweezers attacks' early works by disabling the ability to conduct war, and nuclear and biological weapons &e651; missile bases, air bases, command posts and communication facilities, attacks, the war regime in the early ability to attack is aimed at.

 
F-117A fighters have been turning in a supersonic mission of Crossroads-art stealth maneuver ability to respond to attacks ability to fine-art F-22 (aka Raptors) will take care of it.&e400; U.S. Air Force Homepage
In fact, the June 2005 U.S. Air Force F-117 fighters with 15 vehicles, Kim Jong Il to stay 'teukgak' Scramble for the sky dive and zoom have to be repeated. Across the air when the jet dive chunggyeokeum, also when you zoom through the afterburner of an explosion in North Korea were guarding the convoy by a U.S. Administration that it 'gongpok' (&&1354;&>9190;) may have mistakenly respond to emergencies.

&>1271;, F-117 air defense system failures, 00 failed response revealed infiltration

The first covered the case of Japan 'sapioh' (SAPIO) 24, dated August 2005 that in the article "F-117's flying over North Korea violated the original Arthurian legend of 00 crystal clear voice to the increasing U.S. 'GNP (&&2654;&>4093;) blame 'would have been repeated. However, as reported by the U.S. Air Force is not an emergency or something rash can not even actual conditions, air defense systems, both inside and outside of the defects revealed because of concerns that "the analysis said.

News of this incident, sapioh 'reported, citing domestic first dealt. News articles at the time of delivery through the Internet homepage of the newspaper became Mo 'stealth aircraft afterburner does not sound', 'jjirasi newspaper reporter can not believe the story, he was a controversial one among military enthusiasts.

Meanwhile, the U.S. Air Force F-117 fighter for the last 21 days holromeon Air Force Base in New Mexico, Nevada, in the back with hwansongsik north of Nellis Air Force Base test site of the secluded fully controlled flight, go to tonopa said that the last flight.

According to the U.S. Air Force F-117A fighters, all on a mission off doeme fighter wings separated by maintenance personnel after 09 dongcheman will be preserved. F-117 ever made all 59 of the 37 stands have already retired, as he stands 7 went down.

F-117 after 00 F-22&>1271;infiltration mission succession

F-117A fighters have been turning in a supersonic mission of Crossroads-art stealth maneuver ability to respond to attacks ability to fine-art F-22 (aka Raptors) will take care of it.

Hong Kong's Phoenix TV 'in Taiwan last spoke on condition of anonymity, citing military sources, "F-22 8 price of Guam in the Pacific (Guam) to leave bases in Japan for over-flight refueling from one point to 00 who have infiltrated the U.S. safe return said "he has reported.

In this regard, one of Taiwan samgun University instructor, but did not disclose the exact date until "F-22 was a military target on the conspiracy and attempt to turn," he said.

Meanwhile, U.S. military research lab specialized 'global security' in Pike, John (John Pike) collection in a recent telephone interview with U.S. media, "The F-22 fighter jets to the place of the Alaskan North of there (South Africa aimed at the) large-scale military action hoekchaekhal not be, "he said.

Pike, director, "the balance of forces in Northeast Asia, and the confrontation with North Korea and other countries including the United States is leaning more towards their favor," said, "The F-22 fighters of the layout of Alaska has added one more of these reasons can be found "he said.

Gimpiljae peurijon news reporter (spooner1@freezonenews.com)
 
 

[Free Press says the world - peurijon News / freezonenews.com]
Copyrights &e426; 2005 peurijon News - reprint, redistribute ban

 
 
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sentinel28a       9/29/2009 2:23:48 PM
My eyes hurt now...
 
I haven't read something that disjointed since a freshman research paper I had last month.
 
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Dingc       10/3/2009 2:40:54 AM
>>>Of limited precision in conjunction with the 5029 North jakgye (&>3545;&>1271;) strike plan 'jakgye 5026, 1st North Korean nuclear crisis, the plan was written JDAM (known as' smart bombs'), use the bomb, the dog, 612-756 The U.S. military's main facility is the operational plan to precision strikes. <<<

Oh no, not the dog!!!
 
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