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Subject: Two Rafales crash
usajoe1    9/24/2009 4:52:45 PM
Reuters
Thu Sep 24, 2009 2:45pm EDT

PARIS, Sept 24 (Reuters) - Two French Rafale fighter aicraft from the carrier Charles de Gaulle crashed in the Mediterrenean on Thursday during a test flight, the military said.

One pilot has been rescued, another is still missing.

The Rafale, made by Dassault Aviation, is France's most advanced fighter. Brazil has been negotiating to buy the aircraft, which would be its first export order.

The accident took place about 30 km from the southwestern city of Perpignan. A spokesman for Dassault had no comment.

"It was a training mission, not an operational mission. The search is continuing for the second pilot," an armed forces spokeswoman said. A rescue vessel, a civilian helicopter and two military planes were taking part in the search. (Reporting by Marcel Michelson; editing by Andrew Dobbie)

 
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cwDeici       9/25/2009 5:27:56 PM
So mid-air collisions are usually pilot error?
 
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cwDeici       9/25/2009 5:30:55 PM
(Also my second post was written directly after the first and would perhaps have been better, though I stand by my first post and like it (as the thread was not railed to elicit comments of consolation). Though I suppose it is a tad improper of me to further mention this.)
 
Also French planes have good optics, so that should help in recovery. Right now while the focus should be live retrieval one should mentally prepare that the best likely outcome is to find the body. That gives the loved ones a sense of closure.
 
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cwDeici       9/25/2009 5:35:40 PM
Oh humm? This wasn't created by BW? Well nvm. then I don't mind having read the OP.
 
Anyway, I'm sure everyone reasonably hopes for the best and prays for those involved.
 
I'd like to say that many French posters I see here do not seem to show much sympathy towards Americans, so for those American posters who are expressing goodwill here... you should be more reasonable towards them in the future. (I'm not American.)
 
Well, I can't say I don't loath BW, but I hope he's not too torn up about this.
 
Take care France.
 
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cwDeici       9/25/2009 5:37:58 PM
(As for any condemnations: I don't care. I've expressed sympathy for France, the ones involved, France in general and disdain for their product and some French, and I'm standing up for that whether any overemotional and fixated French or overemotional internationals think so.)
 
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cwDeici       9/25/2009 6:00:32 PM

Deici, I don't see the argument here.  Two pilots doing combat training, they lose situational awareness, and blam, they run into each other.  They could be up there flying X-Wings and it wouldn't make a difference if one pilot loses track of where the other guy is. 

 

It's like when an airliner pilot isn't watching his instruments or is too busy staring at the stewardess' butt and plows a 747 into a mountainside.  It's not the fault of the aircraft: it was sound.  It's the fault of the pilot for not watching where the hell he was going.  You can argue "Why didn't the plane warn the pilot?" It may have, but things happened so fast the human pilot couldn't react.  This is doubly true in high-performance, high speed fighters like the Rafale.

 

You and I can argue the merits and flaws of the Rafale with BW for all day, but this isn't one of those arguments.  A pilot or pilots screwed up, and at least one of them now has to live with that.



Btw., this is irrelevant, but almost all X-wings have shields except in the movies and would in fact survive a head-on collision (not sure about the rpgs, but definitely in the PC games).
 
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cwDeici       9/25/2009 6:15:59 PM
Anyway, I know Herald doesn't like Slowman, but I've seen a lot of good posts of his (and some insane ones). I think you should be nice to him and anyone else who doesn't treat this like it's part or exclusively a condolance thread.
 
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ArtyEngineer       9/25/2009 6:25:30 PM

Anyway, I know Herald doesn't like Slowman, but I've seen a lot of good posts of his (and some insane ones). I think you should be nice to him and anyone else who doesn't treat this like it's part or exclusively a condolance thread.
You have just lost all credability with that statement. 

 
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Bluewings12       9/25/2009 6:36:18 PM
??? Is Deici going to keep on spreading his venom and floading in all impunity ?
I am sorry to say , but this tread is about 2 pilots crashing and one of them is still unnacounted for (MIA) .
 
Deici , you want me to ba banned , fine . I don 't want you to be banned , I only want you to stop . Do you get me , Sir ?
 
Cheers .
 
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stbretnco       9/25/2009 7:02:09 PM

Anyway, I know Herald doesn't like Slowman, but I've seen a lot of good posts of his (and some insane ones). I think you should be nice to him and anyone else who doesn't treat this like it's part or exclusively a condolance thread.

Congratulations, CW. This is a first........someone lending credibility to Slowman and getting me to agree with Bluewings.......all in one thread.
 
I pray they find the second pilot.
 
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Nichevo       9/26/2009 9:53:09 AM
Quel tragique!  Tant-pis, BW, mes sincères condoléances pour les familles et la nation de France. Oublie SlowMan, il ne comprends pas.
 
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Slim Pickinz       9/26/2009 10:54:59 AM
CW, you complain about BW trolling and flooding threads with posts, yet you just posted ELEVEN TIMES IN A ROW. Please stop flooding this thread with your irrelevant babble. If you want to talk so much, write a damn blog.
 
Also, since you admitted yourself you don't know much about aircraft, it is a waste of our time to read all of your posts endlessly speculating on aircraft problems when as history can show us, pilot error is most often the cause of mid-air collisions between military aircraft, and especially if they were dogfighting, the very nature of high performance aircraft and the training they were involved in can easily cause one or both pilots to lose situational awareness, as somebody previously stated.
 
This is a tragic accident and people are mainly showing their condolescences for the missing pilot, and are reserving their judgement until after all the facts have been released and a proper investigation has been performed, something even you should know to do from watching your TV shows.
 
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Bluewings12       9/27/2009 12:48:24 PM
Ok Nichevo , Merci :-)
 
Cheers .
 
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Reactive       9/27/2009 11:39:16 PM
Echo the sentiment and condolences expressed by others, this is an as-yet-unknown incident involving two planes, a huge grievance for the MIA/KIA pilot's family, and not the time to be spamming uneducated, ill-informed bullshit when clearly no one here present is in posession of the facts. Condolences to the Family concerned.
 
It's the first time i've ever agreed with BW on anything. 

It's not unusual or unprecedented for two high-performance jets to collide in mid-air, it happens with the world's best pilots at air-shows, it can also be a result of one party losing consciousness in close proximity, the reality is that it's a sad day and whilst I am no Rafale fan, using this incident to bolster an argument against the rafale is pathetic to the extreme. Wait for the investigation and then comment.
 
To the spammer who has posted this sprawling mound of cretinous bullshit, you have admitted knowing very little about what you are talking about, and base your opinions on documentaries, I can only say you are worse than a joke and are very justifiably chastised for using someone's death as a weak and feeble attempt to appear intelligent.

You c**t.
 
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gf0012-aust       9/28/2009 4:03:02 AM

??? Is Deici going to keep on spreading his venom and floading in all impunity ?

he already has seen my response about his lame attempt to ban you.  as for the other idiot, my silence indicates my contempt and the others more than make up for what I would say if needed..

 
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FCUS       10/1/2009 11:47:44 AM
They found the body of the missing pilot. 

It lays at a depth of 700meters on a muddy slope.

 It was found by the CEPHISMER (Cellule de plongée humaine et d'intervention sous la mer, or Human diving and undersea intervention cell) of the MN.


At least François Duflot's family will have a body to burry. RIP
 
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