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Subject: China's first naval fighter J-15 made its first flight last month.
SlowMan    9/19/2009 4:16:32 PM

 

 

 < link >


 

J-15 apparently made its first flight last month. J-15 is said to be a clone of Su-33 intended for Chinese carriers.


 
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SlowMan       9/21/2009 11:34:42 PM
@ bluewings12
 
> How do you know who the Chinese fear or not ?
 
That's what separates me from the rest here; being able to see things from the other's perspective.
 
> it is another bonus for us .
 
 Could be.
 
> The wake-up will be even harsher.

Well, the wake-up call could be in the other way. One thing you need to understand about Chinese is that they place very little value in human lives, and individuals are expendable to achieve a greater goal. You will see Chinese not sparing their sailor's lives until they destroy all opposing French forces.
 

 
Cheers . 
 
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usajoe1       9/22/2009 1:43:28 AM
 
SlowMan :
""Chinese fear Americans and Japanese, but not French""
 
??? How do you know who the Chinese fear or not ?
Anyway , if they don 't fear the MN , it is another bonus for us . The wake-up will be even harsher .
2 of our nuke attack subs and a couple of destroyers will stop them dead .
 
The PLAN has about a zero percent chance of fighting the MN in blue water, or close to French territory. Now if the fight was closer in Chinese waters the MN will get smashed by the overwhelming numbers of disel subs and land air support.

Now for the BW coment,
The wake-up will be even harsher . 2 of our nuke attack subs and a couple of destroyers will stop them dead .

you are still posting drunk?
 
 
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sentinel28a       9/22/2009 3:13:01 AM
The Hyugas and their F-35s would be just a pleasant bonus.  The F-2s and Harpoon-armed P-3s could saturate a Chinese carrier's defenses, even if they stacked a Sovremenny or two around it.  Same with India.  The SSNs could defend against surface attack, but they can't do jack against air, which would be the primary threat.
 
The French destroyers would probably be busy hunting subs, but the French SSNs are nothing to scoff at.
 
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SlowMan       9/22/2009 6:09:51 PM
Wow, some shocking development.
 
China attempted to lease half of Vladivostok from Russia for $50 billion for 75 years. The report was denied once it was leaked and caused major firestorm in Russia. < link > This plot is actually plausible since Russian Far East side is already overrun by Chinese merchants and businesses.
 
If China does succeed in leasing Vladivostok(And Chinese are attempting to lease the seaside of it), then I can imagine Chinese building a major port city like Hong Kong and positioning a carrier group there, and have a direct access to Sea of Japan.
 
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Bluewings12       9/22/2009 7:46:01 PM
SlowMan :
""That's what separates me from the rest here; being able to see things from the other's perspective.""
 
Uh ?? Ok ...
 
""You will see Chinese not sparing their sailor's lives until they destroy all opposing French forces.""
 
Maybe . They 'll have to try anyway .
 
usajoe :
""Now for the BW coment,
The wake-up will be even harsher . 2 of our nuke attack subs and a couple of destroyers will stop them dead .
you are still posting drunk?""
 
No Joe , remember that we are talking about the Chinese Navy being able to reach the Indian Ocean and then , getting in touch with the MN in our waters . The Indian Ocean is a bit like the Med Sea , a French fish tank .
A 5th of our fleet is there 24/7 .
We 're not talking about fighting the Chinese Navy in chinese waters ...
 
Cheers .
 
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sentinel28a       9/22/2009 8:23:57 PM
Wow, SlowMan.  Snark supreme.  You been taking lessons from DarthAmerica on how to piss off friends and alienate people?
 
If Russia leased Vladivostok to China, they might as well evacuate their Far East region, since the Chinese will overrun it rather quickly.  Good heavens.  If the Russians are this desperate for cash, Obama should bribe them to invade Iran.
 
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albywan       9/23/2009 12:24:41 AM


No Joe , remember that we are talking about the Chinese Navy being able to reach the Indian Ocean and then , getting in touch with the MN in our waters . The Indian Ocean is a bit like the Med Sea , a French fish tank .

A 5th of our fleet is there 24/7 .


We 're not talking about fighting the Chinese Navy in chinese waters ...


 

Cheers .

 


Ever heard of China's "String of Pearls" network?
 
Ever heard of a small island called Diego Garcia?
 
Ever heard of an atlas? (not the rocket - but the map that shows a vast blue area called the Indian Ocean) it is a very large area that "your" navy does not OWN. It is definitley not a "French Fish Tank"
 
Not even Napolean was as deluded about France's ability to project power as much as you seem to be.
 
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usajoe1    albywan    9/23/2009 1:36:24 AM
Ever heard of China's "String of Pearls" network?
 
Ever heard of a small island called Diego Garcia?
 
Ever heard of an atlas? (not the rocket - but the map that shows a vast blue area called the Indian Ocean) it is a very large area that "your" navy does not OWN. It is definitley not a "French Fish Tank"
 
Not even Napolean was as deluded about France's ability to project power as much as you seem to be.
 
To be honest there is some truth to what BW is saying. Not the part about the Indian Ocean being a French fish tank,  but that China has no chance of fighting the MN or any modern navy that far from its home waters. Since the Chinese have no CBG's, modern SSN's and Stratigic bombers with fighter support and tankers they can't send a bunch of destroyers and outdated subs that far to take on the MN. They will be nothing but target practice for the Rafale's operating from CDG and Rubis SSN's.
 
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gf0012-aust       9/23/2009 2:28:55 AM



Ever heard of China's "String of Pearls" network?

 

Ever heard of a small island called Diego Garcia?

 

Ever heard of an atlas? (not the rocket - but the map that shows a vast blue area called the Indian Ocean) it is a very large area that "your" navy does not OWN. It is definitley not a "French Fish Tank"

 

Not even Napolean was as deluded about France's ability to project power as much as you seem to be.
 

To be honest there is some truth to what BW is saying. Not the part about the Indian Ocean being a French fish tank,  but that China has no chance of fighting the MN or any modern navy that far from its home waters. Since the Chinese have no CBG's, modern SSN's and Stratigic bombers with fighter support and tankers they can't send a bunch of destroyers and outdated subs that far to take on the MN. They will be nothing but target practice for the Rafale's operating from CDG and Rubis SSN's.
It's hardly a french fish tank.

The largest naval facilities in the IN are british leased and upgraded by the US
the next largest naval facilities are a combined naval station and airbase able to deploy nuclear bombers owned by the Indians and situated in the Andoman Nicobars
the 2nd, 3rd and 4th largest facilities are all major fleet headquarters owned by the Indians

As for the chinese being inept - underestimating an adversary is risky business.  the PLAN have been happily hacking away at Indian assets in the Indian Ocean and were first "publicly" busted on the job in Dec 2004.

The PLAN has also deployed subsand AGI's into US Naval Exercises in the PACRIM, and they've been sniffing around allied naval exercises in the PACRIM for a good 5-6 years as well.

Granted France and Australia have a maritime hot swapping arrangement for mutual water protection, but that is not the same as having a nuke floundering about making its presence "known" for flag waving exercises.

China is already demonstrating that its more than willing to sally out and go into the blue - so much so that the current CINCPAC has a very different view on the issue than the previous (who was probably a bit "soft" in real terms.

The PLAN may not have a visible persistent footprint in the IN, but they are sure as hell demonstrating latency and intent.

You only need one sub to strangle the movement of a task force.  and conventionals were have been doing that before and since  the launch of 571
 
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gf0012-aust    typo   9/23/2009 2:49:00 AM
The largest naval facilities in the IN are british leased and upgraded by the US

should read:

The largest naval facilities in the Indian Ocean are leased and upgraded from the UK by the US
 
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SlowMan       9/23/2009 10:16:44 AM
@ sentinel28a

> If Russia leased Vladivostok to China, they might as well evacuate their Far East region, since the Chinese will overrun it rather quickly.

Chinese already overran the Russian Far East. This whole 75 year lease thing came as "If you can't stop it, then you might as well profit from it".

@ usajoe1

> China has no chance of fighting the MN or any modern navy that far from its home waters.

Basically, any water around China's String of Pearls overseas base network is China's "home water", which is surprisingly large.

What's shocking is that China's now eyeing Vladivostok as latest pearl to add.
 
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Bluewings12       9/23/2009 12:10:09 PM
Albywan :
""It is definitley not a "French Fish Tank"
Not even Napolean was as deluded about France's ability to project power as much as you seem to be.""
 
The Indian Ocean is indeed a fish tank that we share with Allies . It not France 's waters (this is not what I meant) but we 've been there for sooo long and that also includes our SSBNs that we are riding over and under Indian Ocean like a parisian Taxi is driving in Paris . Secondly , there is (as I said) a 5th of the MN over there and the CdG is about to sail there too .
This is where the Coalition Navies are launching Ops against the Talibans . Do you know how many US Warships are sailing over there ? Look for it , you 'll be surprized ;-)
Since the 9/11 , the Indian Ocean has been a busy place ... Few Chinese Ship would last about ... 6 hours .
 
Cheers .
 
 
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Bluewings12       9/23/2009 1:33:18 PM
usajoe :
""Since the Chinese have no CBG's, modern SSN's and Stratigic bombers with fighter support and tankers they can't send a bunch of destroyers and outdated subs that far to take on the MN. They will be nothing but target practice for the Rafale's operating from CDG and Rubis SSN's.""
 
Absolutly correct . 
 
Cheers .
 
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albywan       9/23/2009 4:41:10 PM

Albywan :

""It is definitley not a "French Fish Tank"
Not even Napolean was as deluded about France's ability to project power as much as you seem to be.""

 

The Indian Ocean is indeed a fish tank that we share with Allies . It not France 's waters (this is not what I meant) but we 've been there for sooo long and that also includes our SSBNs that we are riding over and under Indian Ocean like a parisian Taxi is driving in Paris . Secondly , there is (as I said) a 5th of the MN over there and the CdG is about to sail there too .


This is where the Coalition Navies are launching Ops against the Talibans . Do you know how many US Warships are sailing over there ? Look for it , you 'll be surprized ;-)

Since the 9/11 , the Indian Ocean has been a busy place ... Few Chinese Ship would last about ... 6 hours .


 

Cheers .


 






Here is what you said:
we are talking about the Chinese Navy being able to reach the Indian Ocean and then , getting in touch with the MN in our waters . The Indian Ocean is a bit like the Med Sea , a French fish tank .
A 5th of our fleet is there 24/7 .

 

For what it's worth, the Indian Coast Guard has more personnel than the French have stationed in and Around the Indian Ocean  - and that figure includes all the forces you have in Dijibouti...
 
If you had originally said "Coalition forces' waters" I would've taken no issue.
 
And one reason you have such a large contingent in the Indian Ocean is to meet your defense cooperation commitments, such as patrolling the Arabian Sea, anti pirate patrols of E. Africa, and joint Naval exercises with India. All of which other nations also do.
 
 
 
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Bluewings12       9/23/2009 5:28:58 PM
Ok albywan , I stand corrected but I know that you understood what I meant originally .
 
Cheers .
 
 
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