Hatoyama's dream : Kick Americans out of Japan.

Email Me When A New Comment Is Made
Show Only Poster Name and Title Newest to Oldest

Pages: PREV 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 NEXT

gf0012-aust 9/14/2009 2:54:20 AM

@ gf0012-aust > its not a competition of platforms

No, it's actually a naval version of paintball battle. Certain class of subs perform better than others.

for crying out loud you idiot, its got nothing to do with naval version of paintball. its a maritime version of DACT.

@ gf0012-aust > yet you aren't aware that australia was given all the data on the 209 and its successors when we wanted to make it a maxi fleet sub.

And this is what you said here related to Collins class <link... >

and you do understand why I said it? obviously not. It because the Swedes stuffed up the welding in number 1 (over 10,000 problems in No1's bow). The propellors had a material science issue which was resolved by the americans. the acoustics were fixed by australian designed anechoic tiles which resolved some signature transducer problems, the USN and RAN worked on sail mods etc... It has everything to do with an easier management of relationship. Thats what the comment was about. You of couse don't understand the context and if you had a clue you would have seen any number of posts in here by me as to why I preferred the 209 to the Swedes initial offering..

btw, the 3000 tonne 209 was not offered to anyone else because that design would have included Aust sig management which we only share with one other non nuke power and 2 other nuke powers. HDW couldn't offer anything that the second iteration of Collins was modifed for.

if you are going to try and be a smart arse then you better bring your "a game" because you just demonstrated again a teenagers view of military technology issues.

again, stick to comic books and mechwars where you can live out your fantasies rather than pollute these forums with more inane rubbish.

Quote Reply

SlowMan 9/14/2009 10:19:13 AM

@ maruben

> Using an article like this which is based on anonymous source

It's a Sankei Shimbun article.

> that somebody is planning a war against South Korea over Takeshima is an inadequate way to prove your point.

It's not just planning, this war has been extensively studied and simulated by Japanese DoD.

> Besides, it will be funnier to think that the Japan Air Self Defense Force is planning to use the F-2 for that (air superiority aircraft) role fighting an F-15K carrying AMRAAM when the F-2 can not.

AAM-4 has a longer range than AMRAAM.

> Please next time pick better sources

How can I pick a better source than an article from Japan's national newspaper?

@ gf0012-aust

> its got nothing to do with naval version of paintball. its a maritime version of DACT.

It's a free engage exercise with indendent scorers onboard keeping score of who killed who.

> if you had a clue you would have seen any number of posts in here by me as to why I preferred the 209 to the Swedes initial offering..

What matters is that you prefer 209 to Collins.

Quote Reply

maruben Sources 9/14/2009 12:20:40 PM

> Using an article like this which is based on anonymous source

It's a Sankei Shimbun article.

When you use an anonymous source you prove nothing. A commet with no names is not worthy. It's that simple.

About the Sankei Shimbun is not the most important newspapers here and it's just a conservative rightwing one that likes to play the patriotic propaganda. The exactly propaganda you enjoy to read to believe that Japan is looking to start a war.

> that somebody is planning a war against South Korea over Takeshima is an inadequate way to prove your point.

It's not just planning, this war has been extensively studied and simulated by Japanese DoD.

Prove it with official documents in JAPANASE.

About the Takeshima the Japanese policy has been for long time to take the issue the international court of justice, but since South Korea has rejected to take the dispute there nothing has been done.

After 50 years this policy is intact and because the Japanese Government have been for the peaceful resolution of the dispute, I wonder if it can be true that the Japanese Self Defense Force is planning to do something really concrete about Takeshima.

> Besides, it will be funnier to think that the Japan Air Self Defense Force is planning to use the F-2 for that (air superiority aircraft) role fighting an F-15K carrying AMRAAM when the F-2 can not.

AAM-4 has a longer range than AMRAAM.

This is one of your finest joke. Currently the F-2 can not carry the AAM-4 to kill any F-15K. If in your dream you want to see an F-15K killed and blown by an AAM-4 from F-2 you will need to wait. Maybe in the 2010 you can dream about it when the F-2 will as planned be ready to use the AAM-4.

> Please next time pick better sources

How can I pick a better source than an article from Japan's national newspaper?

You still miss the point. You need official document in JAPANESE or articles from newspapers or journal that have sources quoted with NAMES of well-known experts of the Japanese defense policies.

Quote Reply

Rufus 9/14/2009 1:21:38 PM

"You still miss the point. You need official document in JAPANESE or articles from newspapers or journal that have sources quoted with NAMES of well-known experts of the Japanese defense policies."

This is a problem with many children that have grown up using internet message boards. Many are unable to tell the difference between credible sources and the various rumors and falsehoods that are continually circulating among the message boards.

We get individuals like slowman on a depressingly regular basis. They think that because they obsessively search for every scrap of information available on the internet, much of it false or misunderstood, that they are "experts" and qualified to offer their opinions on complex issues they have no real understanding of. Many of them honestly don't seem to understand how it could be that someone would know so much more than them when they "know" they read everything on the internet...

The internet can provide huge amounts of information, but it offers very little in-depth information. It can keep you up to date on developments, but it can't educate you beyond the level of an interested amateur.

He really seemed surprised the first few times he lied about the contents of an article or made up obviously false information on a program or weapons system and nobody "fell" for it. Among the other kids on whatever other message boards he hangs out on these sorts of posts probably pass for "insightful."

Quote Reply

sentinel28a 9/14/2009 4:07:06 PM

Japan has several nationally-published newspapers. This is only one of them. Trust me, Slow...just because the NYT publishes something doesn't mean it's true in this country.

But since everything's a Japanese conspiracy (Japan wants to build its own nukes, in the most anti-nuke country in the world...really?), you won't believe this either.

Quote Reply

gf0012-aust 9/14/2009 4:23:49 PM

@ gf0012-aust > its got nothing to do with naval version of paintball. its a maritime version of DACT.

It's a free engage exercise with indendent scorers onboard keeping score of who killed who.

white are there to assess not score you idiot

@ gf0012-aust > if you had a clue you would have seen any number of posts in here by me as to why I preferred the 209 to the Swedes initial offering..

What matters is that you prefer 209 to Collins.

again, instead of confirming that you have attention deficit disorder make the effort to read my comments in their entirety. my preference for the 209 was based on the fact that the swedes screwed the pooch on number 1 and then spent the next 10 years trying to bleed the commonwealth and recover the penalties. its about management - not the damn platform you fool.

In the case of collins I have issues with the way the swedes managed it, OTOH I deal with swedes on ISR issues and I have no problem with them. ditto for the french. I happen to have had a positive relationship whenever dealing with the germans so would have much preferred their style of management than he way the swedes ran the sub shop.

seriously, phuque off and stop wasting everyones time in here. if you can't understand the argument and debate then don't step into it.

/ignore on

Quote Reply

SlowMan 9/15/2009 12:51:40 PM

@ maruben

> When you use an anonymous source you prove nothing.

Use of anonymous source is a common practice in reporting. Without it, you wouldn't be getting most of your news.

> The exactly propaganda you enjoy to read to believe that Japan is looking to start a war.

And the 2ch.net crowd. ( ^_^ )

> About the Takeshima the Japanese policy has been for long time to take the issue the international court of justice

Would Japan go to ICJ to settle Senkaku Islands dispute? Would Russia go to ICJ to settle Northern Islands dispute?

> but since South Korea has rejected to take the dispute there nothing has been done.

Actually a lot has been done, mostly making Japanese public aware of this "problem" by declaring in its annual national defense whitepaper and listing the islets as Japanese territory in school textbooks. And a diplomatic campaign within US political circle that got a US president(George W Bush) into this this mess.

> After 50 years this policy is intact and because the Japanese Government have been for the peaceful resolution of the dispute

Both side knows too well that a peaceful resolution is not possible.

> I wonder if it can be true that the Japanese Self Defense Force is planning to do something really concrete about Takeshima.

Of course SDF always has a plan to retake Takeshima by military action, since the military action(aka The Grand Naval Showdown) is considered to be the only possible solution to dispute. It is up to the prime minister to make the final call. SDF and rightwingers would love to have someone like Ishihara Shintaro to rebuild crumbled LDP and become Japan's next prime minister.

What is true is that SDF doesn't have much time left to retake Takeshima; by 2020 Korean navy and airforce is expected to reach a parity with JMSDF and JASDF in combat strength and then even war doesn't become a realistic option, as JMSDF and JASDF would suffer catastrophic losses regardless of war outcome and then you have China ready to take over Senkaku Islands from wounded Japan.

> Currently the F-2 can not carry the AAM-4 to kill any F-15K.

It is not cleared to do so. AAM-4 integration into F-2 is undergoing testing and F-2 will obivously take off with AAM-4 in the event of war.

@ Rufus

/ignore

@ sentinel28a

> (Japan wants to build its own nukes, in the most anti-nuke country in the world...really?

Which country on earth would not want nuclear bombs if they could have it?

@ gf0012-aust

> In the case of collins I have issues with the way the swedes managed it, OTOH I deal with swedes on ISR issues and I have no problem with them. ditto for the french. I happen to have had a positive relationship whenever dealing with the germans so would have much preferred their style of management than he way the swedes ran the sub shop.

And exactly how did you work on signal emissions management of 209 subs again? I don't see how you could have worked on it based on what you have said.

Quote Reply

gf0012-aust 9/15/2009 2:44:51 PM

@ gf0012-aust > In the case of collins I have issues with the way the swedes managed it, OTOH I deal with swedes on ISR issues and I have no problem with them. ditto for the french. I happen to have had a positive relationship whenever dealing with the germans so would have much preferred their style of management than he way the swedes ran the sub shop.

And exactly how did you work on signal emissions management of 209 subs again? I don't see how you could have worked on it based on what you have said.

again, as you present as having an impaired sense of comprehension about UDT signal management and even moreso about assessment in procurement, if you can't understand the argument and debate then don't step into it.

/ignore on

Quote Reply

SlowMan 9/15/2009 3:06:15 PM

@ gf0012-aust

> you present as having an impaired sense of comprehension about UDT signal management and even moreso about assessment in procurement

No, what I understand is that you worked on Collins class project and you had nothing to do with 209's development other than the evaluation of 209 platform for a possible Aussie adaptation.

So how does evaluating 209 translate into developing 209's signal emissions management, especially considering the fact that the "signal" to manage in a sub is noise?

Quote Reply

sentinel28a 9/15/2009 3:08:23 PM

Gimme a break, Slow. How do you know the Japanese only see military force as the only solution to the Takeshima dispute? Do you have sources within the SDF that can confirm this (anonymously or not)? Have you seen the war plans yourself, personally?

My guess is no to both. You're making a guess, and because you want there to be this "Grand Naval Showdown" and a Second Battle of Tsushima Strait, you're making a completely unsupported claim that the Japanese can't wait to fight a war. Based on your extensive knowledge of samurai and kaiju movies, apparently.

Again, based on my extensive knowledge of anime and manga, I could make a similarly unsupported claim that Japan has been building mecha. It's completely ridiculous and has no basis in fact, but it could be possible! I mean, someone built a working Gundam...

And why would Japan not want to build nukes? Probably because they're the only nation ever to have one dropped on them. Hiroshima and Nagasaki are pretty powerful reminders of what today would almost be a mini-nuke could do. The Japanese don't even have nuclear-powered ships; they would have to have a damn good reason to build nuclear weapons, and a pissing match over two rocks in the Sea of Japan aren't a good reason.

Quote Reply

PREV 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 NEXT