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Subject: Hatoyama's dream : Kick Americans out of Japan.
SlowMan    9/2/2009 5:34:06 PM
< link > < link >

Newly elected Japanese government's diplomatic friction with the US is beginning, starting with stopping of refueling of US warships near Afghanistan by JMSDF ships and removal of Futenma US Marine airbase in Okinawa completely off Japan instead of another place within Japan. Japan Democratic Party is expected to call for a ban on entry of US nuclear submarines into Japanese ports next.

It is interesting to note that Japan Democratic Party long called for complete removal of US troops from Japan, with single exception of the 7th fleet in Yokosuka and convert Self Defense Force into a full military in the name of self-reliance on national defense.

Ironically, Japan Democratic Party's drive to kick Americans out of Japan would only increase its desire to acquire advanced American weapons since they would need American weapons to fill the void of American troop removal. Expect Japan's demand for F-22 to get only louder.
 
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cwDeici       9/18/2009 5:09:23 AM
Thousands dying on TV? Sounds like 9/11. I had a friend who celebrated after that... I smacked him.
 
Well, just do what I did, send in a comment through the feedback comment thingamajig. If that doesn't work I'll just find their contact email and start hitting it regularly.
------
 
 
Anyway, yeah, I thought Japan needed a change... any change... but judging by his bravado about his libido and his crazy wife Japan is in for bleaker times ahead. Wth, maybe he's got a few good ideas as well as bad ones, like Obie.
 
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cwDeici       9/18/2009 5:14:28 AM
At least he wants a proper military for Japan though... sorta... I'm not sure if he's going to change the Constitution for that when he warbles about not helping the US because that violates the constitution.
 
As a Hong Konger I see that China has no designs on Japan, but we've designs on our neighbors further south, something Japan would likely want to stop... and if they don't continue to stay ahead of us they'll be in a sore sport if they try to intervene. So in a really arrogant mean racist way this poor treatment of the Amies will lead to a more self-reliant Japan.
 
As for now their navy is still way ahead of us though our subs are getting better. Tossing the F22 out on the ear only makes China smile. :) (hey, I think my country is evil, but it's still my country)
 
*hopes Japan doesn't bother to get the F35 and other noisy planes ;P
 
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cwDeici       9/18/2009 5:24:12 AM
Yikes, you're probably right about Slowman, Sentinel and Rufus.
 
Japan responsible for NK? That's bull. That was our fault (China). Durh.
 
All the Japs did was take over Korea, and they didn't run an abomination like NK. Korea was split because of the victors of WWII... that's basic history.
 
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cwDeici       9/18/2009 5:39:19 AM
About him being racist towards the Japanese I mean. I'm of no particular opinion about SlowMan in general, some of his posts and threads are reasonable (even good, though unsubstantiated) while others are not.
About 2Chan -- it's genious! Sure a lot of twisted fsckery goes on there, but there's plenty of genious too. 
 
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SlowMan       9/18/2009 10:40:01 AM
@ Maruben

> I will strongly recommend you to move to Hollywood you can make a lot of money using your unlimited imagination.

I do not want to get sued for copyrights violation since there are plenty of movies and novels on the subject.

@ cwDeici

> At least he wants a proper military for Japan though... sorta... I'm not sure if he's going to change the Constitution for that when he warbles about not helping the US because that violates the constitution.

Hatoyama seeks Japan to become a normal nation again, complete with a real military capable of offensive strikes and the right to declare war. Hatoyama's plan to issue a formal written apology to China and Korea is the first step in this normalization process.

> As a Hong Konger I see that China has no designs on Japan

Not on Japanese mainland or Okinawa, but on Senkaku Islands. China seeks some kind of military victory to get even with Japan and seizing Senkaku Islands serves that purpose.

>  All the Japs did was take over Korea

And set in motion the chain of events that resulted in creation of North Korea. Mainland China wouldn't be PROC today, it would be Republic of China, a democracy.

> About 2Chan -- it's genious! Sure a lot of twisted fsckery goes on there, but there's plenty of genious too.

Yes. 2ch.net is a reflection of the darker side of Japanese society. There, you can read about the real Honne of Japanese rightwingers, while people like gf0012 and Rufus get fooled by Tatemae.
 
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sentinel28a       9/18/2009 2:56:46 PM
SlowMan, study some fricking history.  Mao Zedong and Chiang Kai-shek were at each other's throats long before Japan decided that conquering China was actually a good idea.  In fact, their decision to conquer China was largely because of the weakness they sensed in that country.
 
Kim Il-Sung came to power because Stalin wanted as many of his allies running the show as possible.  Stalin could've just as easily withdrawn and allowed Korea to become unified under the UN aegis.
 
But I forgot...Japan is responsible for everything bad in the world.  Huh.  I thought only Americans got blamed for everything.  Those damn Japs!  Always trying to compete.
 
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SlowMan       9/23/2009 11:43:22 AM
There is an excellent commentary on the current situation of Anti-American fever running in Hatoyama administration. This is the best English article I have seen to date that gives the most accurate description of the mood in Japan. < link >
 
Basically, Hatoyama's calling for an "Out of West, Enter East" policy, the exactly opposite of Japanese politicians who called for "Out of East, Enter West" policy, citing how the center of global power has shifted from Europe and Washington DC to East Asia.

 
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SlowMan       10/12/2009 12:58:15 AM
< link > A poll on members of DJP's Lower House represntatives found that 61% want Japan to leave US-provided umbrella and have its own "protection".
 
"Self-Reliance" is going to be the key idea of DJP's ntional security policy, which calls for less reliance on US and having a self-reliant regular military(not SDF).
 
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sentinel28a       10/12/2009 9:23:50 PM
Given the royal shafting we've been giving allies lately (see Poland, Czech Republic, Israel, et al), I can't say as I blame them.
 
 
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SlowMan       10/13/2009 9:59:20 AM
@ sentinel28a

> Given the royal shafting we've been giving allies lately (see Poland, Czech Republic, Israel, et al), I can't say as I blame them.
 
No, Hatoyama and Co. want US out of Japan regardless of what US does.
 
Another thing to add.
 
Do you recall Kadena assembly passing a resolution to kick F-22 out of Kadena airbase due to excessive noise? It's happening  in the US too. < link >
 
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sentinel28a       10/13/2009 2:15:40 PM
Yeah, I've heard.  My community passed an ordinance demanding the US leave Iraq, too.  For some reason, it didn't work.   I can't imagine why the needs of the country would outweigh the needs of a community...
 
It's true Hatoyama wants the US out of Japan.  I say we give him what he wants.  The resulting economic damage and political damage he'll take from cozying up to China will destroy his government.
 
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SlowMan       10/20/2009 10:27:22 AM
Japanese defense minister says that the current SOFA rule governing the US troop presence on Okinawa island were "humiliating" to Japan. This is the first time Japan's defense minister directly criticized American presence in Okinawa.
 
< link >
 
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SlowMan       10/21/2009 10:54:28 PM
Hatoyama's dream of kicking Americans out of Okinawa is shocking and infuriating Robert Gates, who is yelling at his Japanese counterpart to honor the base relocation agreements made by LDP, or face grave consequences on national security of Japan. The US administration is stunned that they now have a Japanese government that says "No" and "Get Out" to them.
 
link >
 
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SlowMan       10/21/2009 11:04:51 PM
A senior State Department official said the United States had "grown comfortable" thinking about Japan as a constant in U.S. relations in Asia. It no longer is, he said, adding that "the hardest thing right now is not China, it's Japan."
The DPJ rode to power pledging to be more assertive in its relations with the United States and has seemed less committed to a robust military response to China's rise.
Hatoyama also pushed the idea of an East Asian Community, a sort of Asian version of the European Union, with China at its core.
"I have never seen this in 30 years," Calder said. "I haven't heard Japanese talking back to American diplomats that often, especially not publicly. The Americans usually say, 'We have a deal,' and the Japanese respond, 'Ah soo desu ka,' -- we have a deal -- and it's over. This is new."
 
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warpig       10/22/2009 1:22:10 AM
Well, good for them:  It's about thime they finally find a backbone and tell us they don't need us babysitting them on Japanese terrirtory anymore.
 
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