Hatoyama's dream : Kick Americans out of Japan.

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sentinel28a 9/7/2009 3:50:46 PM

There is one thing I will diagree with you on and that the opinion that McD's is addictive it truely isn't have you ever try to eat that shit? I guy I knew was desparate for work and ended up working in a Macdonald factory he explained that there was one side of the factory which stunk of sewage and the burgers went in all types of colours they were then sprayed with a scent and also something that made them look the right colour, in between the spraying to make the smell nice and spraying to make them look the right colour they were 'cooked' you have got to have major mental defects to like that shit have any of you ever tried making a meal with stuff like real veg, real chesse, herbs and spices?

Really if you haven't and you like 'a good old macky D' then give it a try it doesn't take long, it won't kill you, tastes a whole lot better and you save a shit load of money!!

Thanks for the unsolicited eating advice, Carlos. The thing is, occasionally I like to have me a Big Mac with fries and a Coke. I guess that means I have major mental defects, which will surprise no one here.

I have no interest in becoming a vegetarian, thanks. God made me a predator and I will more than occasionally eat a nice big juicy steak--either here at home or out at a restaurant. But if I choose to eat at McD's, Burger King, or Taco Bell, that is my choice, and I'm mature enough to realize that it is my choice and not blame someone else for it, or claim it is "addicting."

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Herald12345 More days 9/7/2009 4:17:03 PM

Having taken only the time to read through a third of the PDF referenced, I'd point to table 4.2-6 which gives sound levels in DB for the various aircraft. Now, they're quoting F18 figures as a model for the F22 after some profiling but that sucker is louder than a B1B!

:faints:

There's all sorts of reasons why the report concludes that the bed down won't hurt anyone too much over the very lightly populated areas mentioned for the tests, but the F22 is shown from that table as being between 1-8 db louder than the F15.

Ow...

Japan is rather more densely populated as well.

On the other hand, Slowman also shot himself in the foot by citing all these issues with the F22 flying over Japan, after having tirelessly campaigned for the US to sell it to the Japanese.

Read 4.2-6, it's illuminating on sound levels for the aircraft types. There's one typo for the F15 figures but the rest is consistent - and seems to show the F22 is LOUD.

Ian

And this... calls you a liar about the Raptor.

I would like to point out, that I will tell you the truth.

Do you see where this is headed?

Herald

Source....

The report called him a liar, because I know the F-18 operates out of Kadena.

He claimed that the F-22 was banned because of noise. Shrug. The SH shuttles from Iyutama, and Kadena has no trouble with it?

That's all, brother.

Herald

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gf0012-aust 9/7/2009 4:39:15 PM

He claimed that the F-22 was banned because of noise. Shrug. The SH shuttles from Iyutama, and Kadena has no trouble with it?

having personally seen f-22's rotate in and out of hawai'i on the kadena shuttle at least 4 times i'd have to say that he has no idea. - these were for 3 month soirées, so they just weren't tarmac queens unable to do their job due to local EPA rules... :)

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SlowMan 9/7/2009 9:50:47 PM

@ Rufus

> viewing kung fu movies is a way to predict future wars in Asia.

It helps you understand the culture of your potential adversary and what their thinking process is like.

@ sentinel28a

> I'll have to ask my Japanese friends if they are suddenly seized with the desire to scarf eight Big Macs instead of going home to have a nice bowl of miso whenever they pass a McD's back home.

Make sure that you ask an Okinawan, not a Japanese.

> The Koreans and the Japanese aren't exactly best buds, but this is nothing more than paranoia.

Tell that to their war planners.

> while you can learn a lot about a culture through its movies, that can be taken too far.

Then start watching TV dramas and read literature too.

> It would be like watching tentacle hentai and assuming that all Japanese women want to be raped by demons.

There is no live-action tentacle hentai movie playing at Japanese theaters. On the other hand, movies like Men of Yamato, Bokoku no Aegis, and Godzilla vs. King Ghidorah should be taken seriously as true reflection of Japanese sentiment on defense issues.

> SlowMan, you don't like the Japanese. Established.

Actually not established.

@ Carlos500

> SlowMan, weren't you the poster who claimed Japan still has designs on the Korean Peninsula

The linked article describes long running conflict between Japan and Korea over a pair of islets, not mainlands of each other. Mainlands and all undisputed territories of each other are not at play, although Koreans do plan to land on Tsushima if Japan makes its play for disputed islets as a tool of diplomatic bargaining... An SDF analysis paper on that conflict found the defense and take back of Tsushima almost impossible, thus time is not right for SDF to take a play for the islets, yet.

@ StobieWan

> On the other hand, Slowman also shot himself in the foot by citing all these issues with the F22 flying over Japan

F-22 is not flying over Japan; it's flying over Okinawa and the municipal assembly of Kadena is determined to have F-22s kicked out of their town.

> after having tirelessly campaigned for the US to sell it to the Japanese.

Yet I am supposed to be some anti-Japan maniac according to certain misguided people here...

@ Herald12345

> The report called him a liar, because I know the F-18 operates out of Kadena. He claimed that the F-22 was banned because of noise. Shrug. The SH shuttles from Iyutama, and Kadena has no trouble with it?

Yes, Kadena municipal assembly has no problem with F/A-18, F-15, and other US fighters, only F-22.

< link >

@ gf0012-aust

> having personally seen f-22's rotate in and out of hawai'i on the kadena shuttle at least 4 times i'd have to say that he has no idea.

You should tell that to Kedena municipal assembly that passed the resolution to demand the removal of F-22, not me. < link >

Kadena residents protesting F-22 noise.

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gf0012-aust 9/7/2009 10:05:50 PM

@ gf0012-aust > having personally seen f-22's rotate in and out of hawai'i on the kadena shuttle at least 4 times i'd have to say that he has no idea.

You should tell that to Kedena municipal assembly that passed the resolution to demand the removal of F-22, not me. <link... >

Kadena residents protesting F-22 noise.

nice pictures - doesn't alter the fact that the F-22's are and have been to kadena and will continue to do so until further notice.

stop trolling and kaing things up all the time. woulda coulda shoulda.

you keep on trotting stuff out that hasn't happened as proof of life all the time.

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SlowMan 9/7/2009 10:18:54 PM

@ gf0012-aust

> nice pictures - doesn't alter the fact that the F-22's are and have been to kadena and will continue to do so until further notice.

Thank you for admitting that you were wrong, and that Kedena resisdents are protesting F-22 noise.

> you keep on trotting stuff out that hasn't happened as proof of life all the time.

So what do you think those people in the picture are doing, greeting arrival of F-22 with their fists up in the air???

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gf0012-aust 9/8/2009 2:57:22 AM

Thank you for admitting that you were wrong, and that Kedena resisdents are protesting F-22 noise.

So what do you think those people in the picture are doing, greeting arrival of F-22 with their fists up in the air???

you really are an odious and tiresome little creature. go back and read all your posts and then read mine again.

at least pretend to understand what I was responding to.

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StobieWan 9/8/2009 3:23:53 AM

Well, I'm not sure what you're citing in that new linked report as that tends to indicate that the F35 is unfeasibly loud, and the F22A is about as loud - and in fact, at min power, 1000 ft AGL, the F22A is 8 db louder than the F35A (ow!)

There's no mention of the SH in the new report you've linked now - but from h**p://www.kadena.af.mil/main/welcome.asp I can see that F18's aren't based there - they may fly or refuel there but they're not part of the base force structure and therefore the residents simply don't see as many of that type as they do of the F22.

I did find an English language article about Kadena's residents here

h**p://www.japanupdate.com/?id=7408

And

h**p://www.f-22raptor.com/news_view.php?nid=258&yr=2007

So, I guess slowman finally achieved the broken clock/twice a day strike rate on this one thing - the resident of Kadena are genuinely unhappy about noise levels relating to the F22 operations in and around Kadena, probably because from all the reports you've cited, the F22A is perceptually about twice a loud as the F15's already stationed there.

The F22 is a big aircraft with a lot of thrust, it makes a lot of noise and Kadena is up in arms about it. In the first report you cited, Eglin acknowledged this and was relying on low population density in much of the increased footprint of the noise levels to minimise the effects. Citizens in the US appear to have very much similar concerns with both the F35A and the F22A and I guess it's just something that's going to get worse with increasing thrust levels on platforms.

Ian

:faints:

Ow...

Japan is rather more densely populated as well.

On the other hand, Slowman also shot himself in the foot by citing all these issues with the F22 flying over Japan, after having tirelessly campaigned for the US to sell it to the Japanese.

Read 4.2-6, it's illuminating on sound levels for the aircraft types. There's one typo for the F15 figures but the rest is consistent - and seems to show the F22 is LOUD.

Ian

And this... calls you a liar about the Raptor.

I would like to point out, that I will tell you the truth.

Do you see where this is headed?

Quote Reply

SlowMan 9/8/2009 11:45:53 AM

@ StobieWan

> So, I guess slowman finally achieved the broken clock/twice a day strike rate on this one thing

Actually the information I pass here are accurate and reliable, and this F-22 noise fiasco and Kadena residents' outrage is one example of it.

This is not the first time I passed an accurate information but clueless fanboys like herald, Rufus, and to a lesser degree gf0012-aust accused me of BSing because same information isn't covered by English language press or isn't available in English.

All the information I pass here are reliable and accurate, including Japan's carrier plans, F-3 and KFX, even if they aren't covered in English language press.

This is the reason CIA maintains a massive corp of intelligence officers whose job is to collect information by watching foreign language TVs, reading foreign news papers, and browsing foreign language sites.

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sentinel28a 9/8/2009 3:37:28 PM

In response to SlowMan:

Make sure that you ask an Okinawan, not a Japanese.

Are Okinawans somehow more weak-willed than other people? Are they completely hypnotized by the Golden Arches and say "Big Macs! THEY MUST BE MINE!" If so, heaven help them if they ever open a Coldstone Creamery in Naha.

Tell that to their war planners.

Really. Okay, SlowMan--show me. Because when I look at South Korean troop concentrations, they wisely seem to be pointed towards the nutball directly north of you. The only one who probably wants a ROK-Japan war is Kim Jong-Il, and I don't take someone seriously who thinks the CIA is trying to kill him with identical twins.

Then start watching TV dramas and read literature too.

I do. I teach a course on Japanese history.

There is no live-action tentacle hentai movie playing at Japanese theaters.

Since I was making a joke, that doesn't surprise me. Tentacle hentai is kinda passe these days anyhow.

On the other hand, movies like Men of Yamato, Bokoku no Aegis, and Godzilla vs. King Ghidorah should be taken seriously as true reflection of Japanese sentiment on defense issues.

Are you seriously telling me that Godzilla movies accurately reflect Japanese attitudes towards anything but kaiju? I could buy that they show a distinct lack of faith in their own government (given the revolving door PM position, that doesn't surprise me), but in most of those, the SDF is shown as being incompetent and helpless. If that accurately reflects Japanese positions, then Korea has nothing to worry about. Ever.

I've seen far right wing dramas (in anime, Deep Blue Fleet, Silent Service, and Zipang), but those are fringe. Most Japanese series I've seen show an abhorrence for war--rather understandable considering the utter devastation of Japan in 1945. In your defense, Koreans get short shrift (though I think that attitude is finally changing, though very slowly), and there's still racial tension there. But war? I seriously frickin' doubt it.

Actually not established.

Really? Prove it.

The linked article describes long running conflict between Japan and Korea over a pair of islets, not mainlands of each other. Mainlands and all undisputed territories of each other are not at play, although Koreans do plan to land on Tsushima if Japan makes its play for disputed islets as a tool of diplomatic bargaining... An SDF analysis paper on that conflict found the defense and take back of Tsushima almost impossible, thus time is not right for SDF to take a play for the islets, yet.

We have analysis papers in the Pentagon about going to war with Canada (which also has territorial issues over small islands in the Alaskan Peninsula and east of Maine). That doesn't mean I'm going to see the 1st Armored driving on Calgary anytime soon.

Here's what I would predict happens: Koreans land on the Tsushima islets you're referring to. Japan tells them to get the hell off. Korea tells them no. And it goes from there to the UN, who establishes panels, committees, and then blames it on the United States and Israel. In about 100 years a decision will be made. The Japanese people, in the meantime, would laugh and then boot out any administration who wants to go to war over a couple of tiny islands in the middle of nowhere that have no strategic value.

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