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Subject: Hatoyama's dream : Kick Americans out of Japan.
SlowMan    9/2/2009 5:34:06 PM
< link > < link > Newly elected Japanese government's diplomatic friction with the US is beginning, starting with stopping of refueling of US warships near Afghanistan by JMSDF ships and removal of Futenma US Marine airbase in Okinawa completely off Japan instead of another place within Japan. Japan Democratic Party is expected to call for a ban on entry of US nuclear submarines into Japanese ports next. It is interesting to note that Japan Democratic Party long called for complete removal of US troops from Japan, with single exception of the 7th fleet in Yokosuka and convert Self Defense Force into a full military in the name of self-reliance on national defense. Ironically, Japan Democratic Party's drive to kick Americans out of Japan would only increase its desire to acquire advanced American weapons since they would need American weapons to fill the void of American troop removal. Expect Japan's demand for F-22 to get only louder.
 
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gf0012-aust       9/5/2009 6:03:26 PM

SlowMan's Korean?  Bingo.  I figured as much. 

you must have missed all those prev posts I did hammering him for being a bigotted sth korean troll.... :)

Nth Korea has made a rod for itw own back.  over tyhe last 5 years it has told various people representing the US Exec that it would commit to 3 internal promises re nuclear power, weapons and delivery tests.  Its done all 3.  Its also threatened Japan.

If the Japanese want to re-arm and be able to take on the North or be able to exercise a degree of graded response then I'm all for it.

Japans issues are with the Norks, and quite frankly they may have a nuke but they have no capacity to miniaturise it and get it delivered.  By the time they do I would hope that the west has actually had its reality test and realised that they've been played on a break with broken promises for the last 5 years.  Japan is critical to that containment.  Sth Korea less so as its had NK influence into some of its elected officials playing on the "family ties" for far too long.  The SouKs have also been played on a break.  The absolute irony being that bigots like Slowman would much rather have a lunatic as a neighbour than believe that Japan is not a problem to them. 
 
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SlowMan       9/5/2009 9:19:56 PM
@ Herald12345

> Two posters who were in Jap-an have politely called you a liar

And I have statistically proven that's not the case to one person(In case you cannot count) who claimed as such.

560 across a nation of 120 million is a lot? Heck, there are 30,000 McDonald's in the US and 230 in New York City alone.

McDonald's didn't become a common sight across Japan until early 1990s.

> If uoi weren't a Rok I'd almost swear that you were a PRC bandit you lie so much.

Maybe you haven't noticed I post in Eastern Standard Time.

@ sentinel28a

> it definitely shows up in SlowMan's posts as a biased agenda.

Which is that the US should export F-22 to Japan to save US jobs and to keep F-22 line open?

> It's no different when the PRC posters get on here and start railing about revenge for Nanjing.

And can you blame Chinese for calling a revenge on Nanjing?

> The fast-food debate is as ridiculous in Japan as it is in the United States.

Well, it was the TIME article pointing out the effect of American fastfood on heart attack rate of Okinawans.

> Afraid McD's is going to give you heart failure? Don't eat there.

Okinawans are already addicted to Big Mac and French Fries thanks to American troops who brought them to the land of healthy eaters.

> I'm quite sure no one is holding a gun to anyone's head to eat at Ronald's.

And no one's pointing a gun at a drug addict's head to smoke that crack.

> Hatoyama isn't the first Japanese PM to want Americans out of Japan, and he won't be the last.

But Hatoyama is the first PM whose own party wants Americans out of Japan.

> Japan's not going to become imperialistic again, not after what happened to them the last time.

Well, it's not land grabbing anymore, more like islands and sea grabbing.
 
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sentinel28a       9/6/2009 1:38:56 AM
SlowMan, weren't you the poster who claimed Japan still has designs on the Korean Peninsula, despite all lack of evidence to the contrary?
 
Gimme a frickin' break, man.  Let's see...crack is made to be addictive, and so screws up its user that they become unable to function in society.  McDonalds' arguably tastes pretty good and will kill you if you eat it continually for about 30 years and don't exercise.  Crack is illegal, McDs isn't.  Yeah, that's a great analogy you have there.  If Okinawans are so susceptible to eating fast food and promptly keeling over, they could, y'know, stop eating there. 
 
Instead, they'll blame Americans for it.  Damn you, Ray Kroc!  How dare you offer cheap food made quickly!  Who knew that the mere introduction of American fast food would kill thousands of Japanese? Where the hell was Ray Kroc in 1945?!  We didn't need the atomic bombs!
 
Seriously, though...I wasn't suggesting that China shouldn't be torqued because of Nanjing, especially since right-wingers in Japan keep trying to whitewash the whole thing.  However, at least two Japanese PMs and one Emperor have apologized for it, and as I said, if the Chinese want to visit the horror of war on Japan, they're a bit late for that.  Maybe melting the flesh off of people at Hiroshima doesn't quite balance out raping a woman with a katana, but it's close.  The war is over, and the people responsible for Nanjing are long dead and in hell.  While we should never, ever forget it, neither should we hold the crimes of the past over the people of the present.
 
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SlowMan       9/6/2009 10:28:39 AM
@ sentinel28a

> SlowMan, weren't you the poster who claimed Japan still has designs on the Korean Peninsula

Never. I don't know where you got such ideas.
 
What I pointed out is the long-runnung territorial dispute between Japan and Korea which is well documented at wikipedia at here < link >, a dispute so fierce that many experts fear that it could trigger a grand nval showdown that would make Falklands War look like child's play. < link >

> Crack is illegal, McDs isn't.

Both are highly addictive, especially Big Mac and Mac Fries on people who are fed on a life-long diet of fish and miso soups.

> If Okinawans are so susceptible to eating fast food and promptly keeling over, they could, y'know, stop eating there.

Why don't you tell crackheads that they should stop smoking crack since it's bad for them. Or cigarette smokers if you find pursuation of crackheads a bit too tough.
 
> However, at least two Japanese PMs and one Emperor have apologized for it

Those apologies are seen as lip services and not sincere.

> if the Chinese want to visit the horror of war on Japan, they're a bit late for that.

Ask Chinese if they should forgive Japan. Chinese aren't Christians, and the Christian code of ethics is very foreign and alien to Chinese. You watch Chinese Kung Fu movies, and you have the hero trying to avenge the death of their grandfather or great grandfather that took place 60 years prior or something like that.

> Maybe melting the flesh off of people at Hiroshima doesn't quite balance out raping a woman with a katana, but it's close.

Sure, if that's Chinese nuke melting the flesh of Japanese. Chinese think what the US did back in 1945 had nothing to do with them.

> The war is over, and the people responsible for Nanjing are long dead and in hell.

But Chinese vendetta hasn't.

 
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Rufus       9/6/2009 1:10:53 PM
Wow...
 
We have gone from a clueless fanboy saying stupid stuff about planes...
 
...to telling us that McDonalds is addictive in the same way as crack cocaine and that viewing kung fu movies is a way to predict future wars in Asia.
 
 
 
 
 
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sentinel28a       9/6/2009 8:28:44 PM
I'll have to ask my Japanese friends if they are suddenly seized with the desire to scarf eight Big Macs instead of going home to have a nice bowl of miso whenever they pass a McD's back home.  You should be able to hear the laughter, SlowMan.  There's this thing called willpower and personal responsibility, and contrary to popular belief, I imagine they exist in Japan as well as other places.
 
As for the next Tsushima Strait--who are these "experts" you cite and what are they smoking?  The Koreans and the Japanese aren't exactly best buds, but this is nothing more than paranoia.  It's like one mouse accusing another of plotting to grab a crumb of cheese, while the cat stands over their shoulders licking its chops.
 
And you'll excuse me for not taking your kung fu movie analogy seriously.  Plenty of other cultures have the same feelings, not just the Chinese, and while you can learn a lot about a culture through its movies, that can be taken too far.  It would be like watching tentacle hentai and assuming that all Japanese women want to be raped by demons.
 
SlowMan, you don't like the Japanese.  Established.  But if you're going to debate with people and be taken seriously, leave the bigotry at home.
 
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Carlos500       9/6/2009 8:57:33 PM

@ sentinel28a



> SlowMan, weren't you the poster who claimed Japan still has designs on the Korean Peninsula



Never. I don't know where you got such ideas.

 

What I pointed out is the long-runnung territorial dispute between Japan and Korea which is well documented at wikipedia at here <link... >, a dispute so fierce that many experts fear that it could trigger a grand nval showdown that would make Falklands War look like child's play. <link... >



> Crack is illegal, McDs isn't.



Both are highly addictive, especially Big Mac and Mac Fries on people who are fed on a life-long diet of fish and miso soups.
There is one thing I will diagree with you on and that the opinion that McD's is addictive it truely isn't have you ever try to eat that shit? I guy I knew was desparate for work and ended up working in a Macdonald factory he explained that there was one side of the factory which stunk of sewage and the burgers went in all types of colours they were then sprayed with a scent and also something that made them look the right colour, in between the spraying to make the smell nice and spraying to make them look the right colour they were 'cooked' you have got to have major mental defects to like that shit have any of you ever tried making a meal with stuff like real veg, real chesse, herbs and spices?
Really if you haven't and you like 'a good old macky D' then give it a try it doesn't take long, it won't kill you, tastes a whole lot better and you save a shit load of money!!



> If Okinawans are so susceptible to eating fast food and promptly keeling over, they could, y'know, stop eating there.



Why don't you tell crackheads that they should stop smoking crack since it's bad for them. Or cigarette smokers if you find pursuation of crackheads a bit too tough.

 

> However, at least two Japanese PMs and one Emperor have apologized for it



Those apologies are seen as lip services and not sincere.



> if the Chinese want to visit the horror of war on Japan, they're a bit late for that.



Ask Chinese if they should forgive Japan. Chinese aren't Christians, and the Christian code of ethics is very foreign and alien to Chinese. You watch Chinese Kung Fu movies, and you
 
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Carlos500       9/6/2009 8:58:32 PM
There is one thing I will diagree with you on and that the opinion that McD's is addictive it truely isn't have you ever try to eat that shit? I guy I knew was desparate for work and ended up working in a Macdonald factory he explained that there was one side of the factory which stunk of sewage and the burgers went in all types of colours they were then sprayed with a scent and also something that made them look the right colour, in between the spraying to make the smell nice and spraying to make them look the right colour they were 'cooked' you have got to have major mental defects to like that shit have any of you ever tried making a meal with stuff like real veg, real chesse, herbs and spices?
Really if you haven't and you like 'a good old macky D' then give it a try it doesn't take long, it won't kill you, tastes a whole lot better and you save a shit load of money!!
 
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StobieWan       9/7/2009 8:21:54 AM
Having taken only the time to read through a third of the PDF referenced, I'd point to table 4.2-6 which gives sound levels in DB for the various aircraft. Now, they're quoting F18 figures as a model for the F22 after some profiling but that sucker is louder than a B1B!
 
:faints:
 
There's all sorts of reasons why the report concludes that the bed down won't hurt anyone too much over the very lightly populated areas mentioned for the tests, but the F22 is shown from that table as being between 1-8 db louder than the F15.
 
Ow...
 
Japan is rather more densely populated as well.

On the other hand, Slowman also shot himself in the foot by citing all these issues with the F22 flying over Japan, after having tirelessly campaigned for the US to sell it to the Japanese.
 
Read 4.2-6, it's illuminating on sound levels for the aircraft types. There's one typo for the F15 figures but the rest is consistent - and seems to show the F22 is LOUD.
 

Ian
 




And this... calls you a liar about the Raptor.


 

I would like to point out, that I will tell you the truth.  

 

Do you see where this is headed?


 

Herald


 

 

 

 

 

 


 
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maruben       9/7/2009 1:11:29 PM
As 40 years half-Japanese man, with a Japanese wife and 2 Japanese children, who read SP daily but post rarely, I have been trying to avoid conflict with Slowman since I realized he is Korean by ignoring his posts. At the begining I thought he was just other Chinese, nothing wrong with that, but because of the way many Chineses have been educated about Japan and the West I thought that his behavior can be excused if he is willing to listen and think by himself.
It has been more than a surprise to realize he is Korean, who is posting on SP weird and childish things, specially about Japan, to get the attention. Since that day I have not been reading his post for long time and just getting to know what is happening by reading other posters' comments on Slowman's comments.  I wonder why he can not comment about Korea, there should be many interesting things to learn about it, and why Japan is the main topic of his posts or comments. The only conclusion that I can make about it that he is just showing some of his individual prejudices. However I really want to keep the general good opinion about Koreans that I have met in Japan. 
 
Thanks to God, other posters have been giving Slowman the proper treatment that his behavior demanded. Thus taking off the burden from my shoulders to correct his weird and childish comments about Japan. 
 
I hope he changes his mind.
 
Sayonara
 
Maruben
 
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