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Subject: Japan greenlights 22DDH, a real light aircraft carrier(JMSDF insists it's just a destroyer)
SlowMan    9/1/2009 2:50:07 AM
< link > Japanese DoD has given the green light to 22DDH today, the follow-up to Hyuga-class. 22DDH is 37% larger than Hyuga and displaces 19,500 ton empty, loaded displacement unknown(Asian navies always disclose empty displacement instead of loaded or full displacement) A comparison between 16DDH(Hyuga) and 22DDH.
 
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maruben    Videos   10/29/2009 6:29:48 PM
 
Vidoe of the damages. Sorry only in Japanese.
 
 
 
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gf0012-aust       10/30/2009 1:40:52 AM
any injured crew?  if so I trust they're ok.
 
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enomosiki       10/30/2009 2:25:14 AM

any injured crew?  if so I trust they're ok.


One injury aboard Kurama. None aboard Carina Star.
 
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SlowMan       10/30/2009 9:51:46 AM
JMSDF ship hit a Japanese fishing ship today. < link >
 
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StevoJH       10/30/2009 10:15:55 AM

JMSDF ship hit a Japanese fishing ship today. <link... >


If I read that article correctly, it was the other way around. The JMSDF ship was anchored, the Fishing boat ran into it.
 
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stbretnco    Headline   10/30/2009 1:27:57 PM
Fishing boat hits MSDF vessel anchored off Ehime, nobody hurt
 
 
But it's from Kyodo news, which is obviously biased. </sarcasm>
 
You need to try a little harder, Slowman, that one isn't even questionable.
 
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sentinel28a       10/30/2009 2:21:34 PM
At least we manage to agree on something, SlowMan.  The JMSDF calls the Kurama-class a DDH in the same way the US uses the term DDG--Destroyer, Guided Missile.  In this case, Destroyer, Helicopter.  It's a misnomer on the part of the Japanese in that many destroyers since the 1950s have carried helicopters, and most modern DDs carry at least two.  As you said, the 22DDH is a constitutional dodge to allow the Japanese to build carriers--what used to be called CVLs (Carrier, Aviation, Light)--while still technically calling them "destroyers" so they're staying within the letter of Japan's constitution, if not its spirit.  (Though personally, because of the growing threat of China, especially to the Ryukyus, I can understand why Japan is building carriers.  Given the glacial pace of Chinese carrier building, it's possible that the JMSDF will field a carrier before the PLAN.) 
 
The British did the same thing in the early 1980s to get around Parliament's distaste for carriers by calling the Illiustrious-class "through-deck cruisers," although anyone with eyes could see that they were carriers.
 
This brings up another question for you.  If Korea is now seeing Japan as its biggest threat, why isn't Korea building carriers?  Allow me to guess: Korea doesn't need them.  Most of Japan is already in range of ROKAF land-based air and a carrier wouldn't be very useful.  Of course, the reverse is true that most, if not all of South Korea is within range of JASDF land-based air...which brings up the follow-up question: if Japan regards Korea as its biggest threat, then what use are carriers when they can be sunk at the pier by F-15Ks?
 
I do realize that building carriers to fend off the Chinese and regarding Korea as the biggest threat to Japan are not mutually exclusive, but it is one of those things that makes you go "hmmm."
 
Another "hmm" moment is the article you just posted, Slow.  Here's the article, in full:
 
 A fishing boat on Thursday night bumped against a Maritime Self-Defense Force vessel anchored off Iyo city, Ehime Prefecture, the Japan Coast Guard said early Friday.
 
In fact, the headline reads that the fishing boat hit the JMSDF vessel, which is pretty damn well spelled out, yet you put it in that the JMSDF hit the fishing boat.  Either you 1) didn't read the article, which I doubt, 2) transposed the headline, which I'm pretty doubtful of or 3) purposely reversed it to make the Japanese look bad. 
 
 
 
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SlowMan       11/2/2009 9:23:37 AM
@ sentinel28a

> if Japan regards Korea as its biggest threat, then what use are carriers when they can be sunk at the pier by F-15Ks?

Sinking a frontline JMSDF ship is very difficult because of their Aegis and Aegis-like indigenous air defenses fitted to their ships. The Grand Naval Showdown scenario requires 1,000 anti-ship missiles from each side to crack the opposing fleet's air defense, or at least put enough pressure on opposing fleet  for subs to do their work.

Anyhow, Japan needs more 22DDHs than ever now that Russia decided to buy 5 Mistrals, 2~3 of which would be put into Russia's Pacific Fleet. Japan may need to build five 22DDHs instead of two planned.

 
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sentinel28a       11/2/2009 3:18:13 PM
And why would that be, considering that Russian Mistrals wouldn't have V/STOL fighters aboard (the Russians don't have any) and would only have helicopters? 
 
 
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