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Subject: The Telegraph : UK MoD switching from F-35B to F-35C, will redesign carriers to make the switch
SlowMan    8/6/2009 11:06:02 AM
< link > "In a significant about turn the MoD has indicated that it will ditch the jump-jet version of Joint Strike Fighter in favour of the conventional model, as the planes for its two new aircraft carriers. The Daily Telegraph has learnt from senior defence officials that an announcement will be made this autumn." "The about-turn will also mean that the first of two 65,000 tonne carriers under construction, HMS Queen Elizabeth, will have to be redesigned with cost penalties. It is possible the recent £1 billion rise to £5 billion for the carriers might by partly attributable to the change of plan. But senior MoD sources believe that choosing the "CV" variant over the "B" will give the Navy considerable advantages as the conventional fighter can fly further and carry a far bigger bomb payload. Both variants are built by Lockheed Martin."
 
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StobieWan       11/17/2009 7:38:39 AM
I'm beginning to wonder if there's a covert campaign to market test cancelling one or both carriers as this is the second or third junk story about canning them. As has been said, the Guardian isn't a solid intel source. The possibility that India would want to maybe buy a carrier in sequence with a UK build would be exciting and encouraging as part of the increased costs for the carriers we're taking are due to delaying the building program.
 
I will wait and see - the last story about making the second carrier a helicopter carrier only was debunked within the week in the house of commons I believe.
 
Ian
 
 
 
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SlowMan       11/18/2009 10:33:20 AM

I'm beginning to wonder if there's a covert campaign to market test cancelling one or both carriers as this is the second or third junk story about canning them.
It is not a secret that UK MoD wants to eliminate 2nd carrier to cut cost. The cost of canceling 2nd carrier contract is prohibitive at this point, so they are trying to find alternative uses for it, such as a helicopter carrier(fielding helicopters is far cheaper than fielding F-35s, which is expected to cost almost $160 million a copy) or better yet, sales to India like how they disposed unwanted Typhoons to Saudi Arabia. 
 
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StobieWan       11/18/2009 6:41:03 PM
We'll see - the second carrier = helicopter carrier was totally debunked earlier, and logically the carriers come as a pair - you can run them with 50 JSF as it's likely that only one carrier will be on station at a time so a wing and a half of strike jets will work. I'd sooner not.
 
 
Ian
 
 
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StobieWan       11/19/2009 3:43:59 AM
As expected, MOD debunks the rumour
 
 
link
 
 
Check posts for the 17th November but I'll quote for clarity
 
"'Speculation' of aircraft carrier sale to India 
An article in The Guardian... suggests that the MOD is considering selling one of the two future aircraft carriers to India to ease the strain on the Defence Budget. This is unfounded speculation. There has been no approach by the Indian Navy to the MOD about purchasing a future aircraft carrier."
 
 
QED
 
 
Ian
 
 



I'm beginning to wonder if there's a covert campaign to market test cancelling one or both carriers as this is the second or third junk story about canning them.



It is not a secret that UK MoD wants to eliminate 2nd carrier to cut cost. The cost of canceling 2nd carrier contract is prohibitive at this point, so they are trying to find alternative uses for it, such as a helicopter carrier(fielding helicopters is far cheaper than fielding F-35s, which is expected to cost almost $160 million a copy) or better yet, sales to India like how they disposed unwanted Typhoons to Saudi Arabia. 


 
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SlowMan       11/19/2009 11:36:39 AM
More news reports from Indian side that they really want the second carrier.
 
<  link >
 
< link >
 
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StobieWan       11/20/2009 3:55:38 AM
They're both junk links referencing the original report by the Guardian and the Observer (sister publications to each other and therefore not independent.)
 
The UK MOD explicitly refutes the Guardian report, and that's what the two links you cite refer to. 
 
There's no story here,

QED,
 
Ian
 
 
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sentinel28a       11/20/2009 3:28:34 PM
Oh, I don't doubt the Indians would love to have that second carrier.  Of course, there's nothing saying that the yards can't build a third carrier--the British shipbuilding industry would love that.
 
 
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StobieWan       11/21/2009 11:43:21 AM
Oh we'd love that :) Think is, the Indians are working on their own carrier designs and getting the former Gorshkov back on its feet (a prolonged and frustrating process) If all of that comes to fruition, they could potentially have more carriers than the UK and France combined, which they can't support.
 
So, I doubt they'll be buying a POW on any terms.
 
Ian
 

Oh, I don't doubt the Indians would love to have that second carrier.  Of course, there's nothing saying that the yards can't build a third carrier--the British shipbuilding industry would love that.

 
 
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Hamilcar    EMALS.   11/21/2009 5:35:10 PM

 

About the EMALS

 

I don't know EMALS design on details but it should not be that challenging, Electromagnetic ramp technology have been in use in for a quite long time in many industrial domain.


 

Technically, Electricity is much more efficient then hydraulic/steam to transfer power. Unless EMALS have a terrible design, it should require less energy to lunch a equivalent weight then traditional steam catapult. 

 

For me, steam catapult are completely outdated. Its a bit like having a diesel powered locomotive that would use steam to transfer energy to the wheel.

 
General Atomics slings loads as I write this. Its a freaking segmented synchronous linear electric coil gun motor, not a continuous LINAC rail gun.
 
 
The main problem is heat management. That thing's disk alternators will get HOT.
 
 
 
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gf0012-aust       11/21/2009 6:01:33 PM
The main problem is heat management. That thing's disk alternators will get HOT.


 there are ways to start mitigating that though.  eg materials science issues for heat sinking and cryo capabilities...

 
 
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