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Subject: The Telegraph : UK MoD switching from F-35B to F-35C, will redesign carriers to make the switch
SlowMan    8/6/2009 11:06:02 AM
< link > "In a significant about turn the MoD has indicated that it will ditch the jump-jet version of Joint Strike Fighter in favour of the conventional model, as the planes for its two new aircraft carriers. The Daily Telegraph has learnt from senior defence officials that an announcement will be made this autumn." "The about-turn will also mean that the first of two 65,000 tonne carriers under construction, HMS Queen Elizabeth, will have to be redesigned with cost penalties. It is possible the recent £1 billion rise to £5 billion for the carriers might by partly attributable to the change of plan. But senior MoD sources believe that choosing the "CV" variant over the "B" will give the Navy considerable advantages as the conventional fighter can fly further and carry a far bigger bomb payload. Both variants are built by Lockheed Martin."
 
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John G       8/7/2009 9:46:27 AM
the room for all of the catapult machinery has been accounted for in the initial design phase so it would be 'relatively' simple to install them later on. as for the article it was mentioned on Radio 4 by a minister that the F-35 B is still the 'preferred' option. I think this is just confirmation that if the B goes tits up that C is the 2nd option ie not a marinied typhoon or rafael and the ignorant jornalists as usual are confused.
 
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french stratege       8/7/2009 9:52:37 AM
IF what was posted below in the thread is true...THERE CAN'T BE STEAM PIPING.  The CVF is turbine powered...there is no steam plant, for propulsion.  And there is NO ROOM for the installation of a dedicated steam plant for launch operations.  Making EMALS, or it's British/European, equivalent the only option for catapult operations.  And EMALS is in serious trouble, technically.

No.It was a common UK French design and the French derivative version has a dedicated steam plant for catapult.They just have to base their design on the French blueprints.
However maybe British will go EMALS.
 
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Phaid       8/7/2009 9:56:11 AM
And there is NO ROOM for the installation of a dedicated steam plant for launch operations.
 
That is incorrect. The CVFs were designed from the start to be upgradeable to CATOBAR should the need arise.  You are correct however in that they will require a separate steam plant since the IFEP propulsion cannot supply steam.  But the CVF design has always included room for this.
 
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StobieWan       8/7/2009 10:04:51 AM
well, the basic design work to handle all of that has been tackled under the PA2 project as the French were/are intending to launch and recover Rafales so I doubt it's insurmountable and of course, the PA2 may well be what we end up building for ourselves at this rate.
 
Ian
 
 
 
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StobieWan       8/7/2009 10:07:18 AM
Proper aircraft carrier, angle...
 
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FJV    Cause of extra costs 1   8/7/2009 3:06:42 PM
This should ideally have been covered in the specifications stage.
 
Now that you are already designing this change will as a rule of thumb cost 10 times as much when compared to making the change while still writing the specifications.
 
Getting the specifications absolutely perfect before starting to design prevents so much unneccesary hassle. It means you only have to design stuff once instead of 4 to 5 times.
 
 
 
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FJV    Oops   8/7/2009 3:09:32 PM
The about-turn will also mean that the first of two 65,000 tonne carriers under construction, HMS Queen Elizabeth, will have to be redesigned with cost penalties.
 
Oh they are already under construction that would mean a factor 100 ... 1000 to make the changes needed.
 

 
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Phaid       8/7/2009 3:39:32 PM
As I said above... the Queen Elizabeth class design already includes catapults and arresting gear -- they were designed in to allow them to be fitted at a later date, to accommodate follow-on aircraft to the F-35, CTOL AEW aircraft, etc.  They do not need the PA2 plans, the design work was already done for the QE class.  Even so, the cost will substantially increase since this is a change order and will require a lot more equipment be fitted.
 
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VelocityVector       8/8/2009 3:21:06 PM

HMS was safetyed with steam, not EMALS - correct?

v^2

 
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Reactive       8/8/2009 3:54:08 PM
A very sound decision by the MOD, I thought going with the F-35B was quite a large tradeoff for stovl capability. The "C" version is superior in almost every respect and resembles a far more potent strike package (500nm extra range compared to the "B" variant).
 
As a UK taxpayer I'm happy with the extra costs, considering we are now spending 25% of our GDP on social security I would happily turf a few million lazy assholes off benefits to pay.
 

 
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