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According to AFP, Brazilian president received a letter signed by Sarkozy guaranteeing unrestricted tech transfer, and this was the final nail that closed the deal.

 

The US countered by announcing that US would transfer technology necessary for local production of Super Hornet, meaning just airframe fabrication and assembly tech and not AESA radar or avionics.

 

FS, Brazil doesn't depend on the US for hardly anything in its armed forces.  Most of its Army equipment is either home-grown or French; most of its naval equipment is European, and only a third of the air force uses American equipment (the C-130, KC-707 conversions, and F-5s)--everything else is either French or made by EMBRAER.  The Rafale will likely replace the F-5, since the Mirage III was already replaced by the Mirage 2000.

 

And as usual, Bluewings, you can stop the mental masturbation over the Rafale anytime.  Can the F3 lase its own bombs?  Because earlier Rafales couldn't.  The Super Hornet could from the moment it rolled out of the factory.  With suitable improvement, the Rafale would be the equal of a Super Bug, but not as it sits now and certainly not as it was rolled out.

 

Good heavens, French guys! Your pet aircraft finally got a good contract!  Be happy with that.

"FS, Brazil doesn't depend on the US for hardly anything in its armed forces.  Most of its Army equipment is either home-grown or French; most of its naval equipment is European, and only a third of the air force uses American equipment (the C-130, KC-707 conversions, and F-5s)--everything else is either French or made by EMBRAER.  The Rafale will likely replace the F-5, since the Mirage III was already replaced by the Mirage 2000."

 

 

Something one would think a self proclaimed expert would already know...

 

sentinel :

"??? excuse me but the Rafale won on technical every evaluation and competition it did enter . That goes for South-Korea , Singapore , Switzerland and Brazil . Tell me , how often the SH was dropped first or second ? So ?.."

 

LMAO, once again you are nothing but a pathetic liar bluewings. 

 

Addressing only the new material and not the previous losses the Rafale has suffered that have already been hammered into the ground 100 times in 100 other threads... how do you figure the Rafale "won on technical grounds" when the Brazilian airforce has not even completed its study of the competitors?

 

You are a liar and a troll.

 

 

 

Boeing Sweetens Offer to Brazil to Win Jet Fighter Contract

By Joshua Goodman

Sept. 10 (Bloomberg) -- Boeing Co., sweetening its bid to beat out Dassault Aviation SA and win an order for 36 jet fighters from Brazil?s air force, offered to assemble most of the proposed contract?s F/A-18 Super Hornets in the country.

The planemaker wants to manufacture the first 12 planes in the U.S. and transfer equipment and tools to assembly lines to Brazil so Sao Jose dos Campos-based Empresa Brasileira Aeronautica SA could assemble the remainder, said Mike Coggins, who is overseeing the sale for Boeing.

?If Brazil chooses to exercise this option, we?re on board, and the U.S. government has been on board since February, when they granted us full authority and approval,? Coggins said in a phone interview from Brasilia. ?We do recognize it is important to Brazil that these jets are final-assembled here.?

Boeing wants to prevent France?s Dassault from winning work that analysts estimate could be valued at as much as 5 billion euros ($7.29 billion). The Chicago-based company made its offer last week, before French President Nicolas Sarkozy traveled to Brazil, pitching Dassault?s Rafale jet with a promise to build some locally as well as buy 10 Embraer military transport aircraft.

Boeing, Dassault and a third finalist, Sweden?s Saab AB, are being allowed to amend their bids delivered in June, Coggins said. Brazil?s air force will make its recommendation this month, Coggins said. (Politics Politics Politics... what kind of a leader picks his favorite plane before the airforce has even issued its recommendation?...)

France?s government promised to grant Brazil exclusive rights to sell the Rafale in Latin America. Coggins called the offer a ?marketing ploy? since few other regional buyers can afford the plane or have committed to other suppliers.

?We feel that Brazil?s goals of national autonomy and industrial development are best served by a 30-year partnership with the largest aerospace company in world,? he said.

Under Boeing?s offer, Embraer would perform both the final assembly on the remaining 24 jets and ?do the same work should the number of jets grow,? Coggins said.

 

What some have to understand is this : the most important part of the deal is not the sale in itself but the political side .

 

Brazil sees itself as a big member of the G20 (like India) and they want to have their word to say . France doesn 't have a big influence in South-America besides few small weapons sales here and there , nothing much in fact but we already have a long time business history with the Brazilians . What France did and still doing in the UAE is a good deal for both sides , a win-win situation . We try to do the same with Brazil , we bring our hardware and knowledge to better their armed forces , we share our technology (not in the case of the UAE) and we get decent money , political friendship and trust . 

 

Brazil knows that they will have air superiority over South-America with the Rafale and a second to none Sea and ground striker . Then , if they want to "reverse engineering" Spectra (or else) , it will be LEGAL for them to do so and they will even get help from the French , they want to learn and they are ready to pay top money for and that is part of the deal .

The US don 't want to share and they are loosing in the long term .

Basically , France doesn 't give much of a crap if the Brazilians open up the French "gizmos" because we always are one generation ahead and they have to learned how to do it by themselves and that takes time .

 

Then , Brazil will also get the possibility to sell their futur home built Rafales (!) which is enormous in itself (at least regarding the International Law) . I can ' see Lockmart or Boeing doing the same (rolling eyes) .

Of course this is purely theorical , why would Brazil sell Rafales to Bolivia , Colombia , Peru , Venezuela , etc ?

 

Then , there is the French nuclear tech , our highly capable diesel Subs and a Nuclear attack Sub , attack shoppers , etc ...

From a customer PoV the difference in between a US deal and a French deal is about trust and friendship . Where one try to sell a fighter without the maintenance (F-35) , the other gives everything and get an Ally .

 

Who 's getting the better deal and the last laugh ?

 

Cheers .

 

 

Rufus :

Bluewings, if the Rafale won on technical terms in all those countries...why is Brazil the only one besides France (and possibly Libya--haven't heard anything about that for awhile, what happened there?) who has bought it?  Switzerland and Taiwan are on hold, Singapore and South Korea went for the F-15E, Morocco went for the F-16.  If the Rafale is such a world-beater, why isn't it selling?  Given the tech transfer Brazil is getting, one could make the case that Sarkozy basically bribed the Brazilians into buying it.  It almost sounds like the Brazilians wanted the tech and the nuclear submarines, and bought the Rafale because otherwise they wouldn't be getting it.  "Oh, all right, Sarkozy, we'll buy the damn thing! Now give us the other stuff!"

 

And actually, France has done pretty good in South America, especially with air forces.  Brazil and Peru fly Mirage 2000s, Colombia flies Mirage 5s, Ecuador flies Jaguars and Gazelles, Argentina flies Mirage IIIs and Super Etendards.  French Exocets came close to forcing the British out of the South Atlantic.  Those aren't small, isolated arms sales, but big time pitches.  And why not? The Mirage series is exceptional, the Su is a great airplane. 

 

You wonder why you're not taken seriously here?

Saab refuses to concede defeat as well, it seems...

 

Saab Takes Part In the Continued Fighter Procurement Process in Brazil

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Sentinel :

 

I think there are several ways to interpret what's going on.

 

One theory is that pro-US (or Sweden) elements in the FAB tried to prevent a Rafale selection by

1) delaying the selection process (initially due in August) ubtil Octover the 23rd

2) start a smear campaign (+ well-timed "leak" of F-18/Gripen winning the evaluation) after Sarkozy visit

 

Thus the joint Lula/Sarkozy statement would be a preemptive strike vs reluctant (bribed?) parts of the FAB.

 

Another theory is that the new statements about the competition being still open is simply legal protection against future lawsuits and that the Rafale selection is final.

 

Another one is that it's a ploy from Brazil to get even better terms from all contestants (final offers were made in June).

 

At this point everything is possible (in fact all three theories may be correct - they're not mutually exclusive).

 

 

Korean Airforce was basically looking for a bomb truck, and Strike Eagle was the bomb truck, not Rafale.