"Rufus: Super Hornet had APG79 radar which was the only advantage over Rafale with RBE2 PESA but we offer RBE2 AESA."

 

You have already received the benefit of far more education from posters here than you have deserved french stratege.  Why don't you go reread one of the several very very long threads that demonstrate what an idiotic statement the above is. 

 

Brazil's plan to buy French fighter jets hits turbulence

By Claire de Oliveira (AFP)

 

RIO DE JANEIRO — Brazilian President Luiz Inacio Lula da Silva's stated plans to award a multi-billion-dollar fighter jet contract to France ran into turbulence on Wednesday amid pressure from rival bidders and Brazil's air force.

The selection process "has not yet finished," Defense Minister Nelson Jobim said in a statement late Tuesday.

Brazil "will continue with negotiations with the three participants; they will be followed up and the proposals potentially reshaped," he said.

That position ran counter to official statements by Lula and his government on Monday -- during Brazil's Independence Day attended by French President Nicolas Sarkozy -- to the effect that the deal had all but sealed in favor of France's Rafale jets made by Dassault.

"President Lula has announced the decision by the Brazilian side to begin negotiations with the GIE Rafale to acquire 36 Rafale combat aircraft," Lula and Sarkozy said in a joint statement on that day.

Brazilian Foreign Minister Celso Amorim specified that the decision to extend the talks with Dassault "was not adopted in relation to the other two" bidders, Boeing of the United States and Saab of Sweden.

A Rafale spokesman at the time told AFP that "President Lula's declaration clearly means that the Rafale has won the competition."

But Brazil's air force, which had not yet submitted its painstakingly detailed analysis of all three contenders to Lula, objected to being sidelined, analysts said.

"I think our president got a bit ahead of himself," said one Brazilian military analyst, Alvaro Pinheiro.

 

 

Interesting.

 

Yeah, Boeing has a great aircraft offer.

 

But a lot of work still needs to be done to determine who else in the US is going to get onboard to assist with upgrading a large number of Brazilian Army components (AFVs, logistics vehicles, artillery, commo, etc), who in the US will help them not only with a nuclear sub, but with SSKs also, and who in the US is going to help them do what appears to be a pretty good sized rehabilitation and modernization of a good many Brazilian defense areas (bases, shipyards, airfields, etc) ?

 

Read deeper into the contracts and see what all is at stake that Brazil has ambitions to do.

(Why would the US want to help Embraer with its KC-390 program, especially as one of its chief rivals is the US-built C-130 family? ...even though Boeing might have a chance at destabilizing LockMart's corner on that market, if it did...)

 

Here's another catch:

Call it trying to market his own country's concerns or whatever,

but France's PRESIDENT went to Brazil and talked with their president over the matter (a lot of cooperative development, in fact),

whereas, has the US president even made the slightest interest in visiting the Brazilian president on Brazil's terms to discuss Brazil's plans?

No, the US president is too bothered with health care reform, a roller coaster of an economy where people don't really know who to believe anymore, and a handful of other domestic issues,

to have any concern over what Brazil would like to do.

In the political arena, that can also have a lot to do with closer ties between countries.

 

Seeing as France knows SSKs, France knows small surface combatants, and France knows carrier construction that Brazil could afford in its future, it just seems like France has more to offer Brazil, and France's president isn't afraid to make a personal appearance on behalf of his country's offering.

 

This new American president wants to build partnerships with other nations (who just so happen not to have a lot of crude oil to offer us), then maybe he (POTUS) needs to wake up and realize that if you want closer ties with other countries, you meet them more on their convenient terms, not entirely on your own.

The US can't be seeing the Brazilian fighter program, or the Indian one for that matter, as a real serious issue, or more US politicians would be more active in securing these improved international relations.

Yeah, I know: as much as I hate politicians getting involved in every little thing, in part that is in their job description, especially where international partnerships are concerned.

What if Brazil decides to start thinking like that?  "US political structure doesn't really want to focus on this large Brazilian issue, so why should we honor any "friendship" and accept their trade offer so eagerly?"

 

Sarkozy is playing the better politician in this instance, whereas the US political leadership, so far, has shown it just can't be bothered with it.

Anhyone else think that might carry some weight in Brazil's final decision?

 

We heard France's stories on this.

We've heard Brazilian versions.

And now a US response or two.

Question is: whose propaganda do we believe?

 

""I agree Rafale F3 is a lesser plane than Super Hornet is""

 

Actually , I meant the opposite .

 

The Brazilian deal is in fact (in total) worth $17.1 billion .

- Euro 5.5 billion for the Rafales without weaponry (1 more billion for the weapons)

- Euro 1.85 billion for 50 Eurocopters

- Euro 4.9 billion for 4 Scorpenes and a nuclear attack sub

 

Then , there is also the related and needed infrastructures and the Tech transfert . Dassault will build the first 6 Rafales in France and the others will be sent in kit to the Brazilian assembly line . Not a single screw or bolt will be built in Brazil .

 

The most important part is not the deal in itself but the new long term cooperation in between France and Brazil .

 

Cheers .