Translation: France offered bribes and the others have not, yet..

 

Herald

@ Herald12345

 

> Translation: France offered bribes and the others have not, yet..

 

If you call tech transfer a bribe, then Hillary Clinton made same bribe offer, $3 billion worth of it.

Dassault does have a pretty good track record with Brazil, plus I imagine the Brazilians are looking at a replacement for the A-4KUs they have at some point for the Sao Paulo.  The Rafale would fit both requirements, though so would the Super Hornet.  I agree that I won't believe it until I see the ink dry on a contract, but I would say it is a good possibility, given Brazil's previous French buys.

The Sao Paulo wouldn't be able to operate Rafale Ms on a regular basis without a major overhaul.  Yes, the first Rafale M carrier tests were done aboard the Foch, but those could only be completed with the addition of a ski ramp at the end of the bow catapult.  In addition, the hangars are not suitable for the Rafales.

 

The Super Hornet is heavier than the Rafale and I doubt they could operate from Sao Paulo at all.

 

My bet is that if the Brazilians want to replace the A-4s, they will either do it with more A-4s or with surplus Super Etendards from France.

Herald

 

 

"Maybe I have a comprehension problem, but I fail to see how this quot from the linked article"

 

 For whatever reason he regularly lies in his little "summaries" of articles.

 

Go figure...

 

@ Rufus



> The US doesn't have their fighters funded by mid-sized players so that the US Navy can later buy them down the road. You have the whole process backwards.



KC-45 : Airbus A330 MRTT adopted by USAF

VH-71 Kestrel(aka Marine One) : US adoptation of AgustaWestland AW101

AV-8B : USMC adoptation of Harrier



There are sewveral examples where the US military adopted an aircraft developed by a foreign country. With F-22 dead and sole-surviving F-35 being single-engined, the US Navy does have to consider adopting a twin-engine plane developed with foreign government's funding if they wish to have a twin engine aircraft.



With the US Navy's historical preference for twin-engined jet, are they really ready to go all F-35?

<link... >

Contenders

Rafale F3 : $130 million per plane + extensive tech transfer
Super Hornet : $90 million per plane, weapons and support + will buy some parts from Brazilian suppliers.
Gripen NG : $60 million per plane. Will build half of NGs in Brazil.

Rafale F3 is favored over Super Hornet because of the promise of an extensive tech transfer.

France seen leading race to equip Brazil air force

By Claire de Oliveira (AFP) ? 1 hour ago

RIO DE JANEIRO — France's modern combat jet, the Rafale, is seen as the leading contender in a four-billion-dollar race to supply the Brazilian air force ahead of a visit by French President Nicolas Sarkozy.

Analysts say France's offer to give Brazil the technology behind the multi-role combat aircraft as part of the sale of 36 planes could give it the edge over rival bids from the United States and Sweden.

If France's Dassault does sell its Rafales to Brazil, it would be the first time the jets have been sold abroad.

Brazilian President Luiz Inacio Lula da Silva told AFP in an exclusive interview ahead of Sarkozy's two-day visit that the technology transfer offer gave the Rafale "an exceptional comparative advantage" over Boeing's F/A-18 Super Hornet and Saab's Gripen NG fighters.

While cautioning that Brazil's decision process still had to be approved by air force commanders and lawmakers, he praised France as "the only important country ready to discuss transfer of technology in all areas with us."

He stressed that "a country the size of Brazil can't buy a product from another country without technology transfer."

A Brazilian military expert who runs a specialist magazine titled Defesanet, Nelson During, told AFP that Brazil's decision should be known in October.

"The air force should send its evaluation of the three aircraft to the government on October 23 -- Day of the Aviator -- indicating its choice. Then, the National Defense Council should ratify that choice pretty quickly," he said.

Informed sources though said that Sarkozy's visit which starts Sunday and coincides with Brazil's Independence Day celebrations, could precipitate the announcement of the winning bid.

During said France's big advantage in the competition "is that it doesn't put restrictions on its technology -- it gives everything."

That appeared to contrast with the offers from Boeing and Saab.

The US company is subject to congressional oversight for defense technology exports -- something Brazil has run up against several times in the past, to its annoyance.

Saab's Gripen, while praised as a relatively cheap and versatile option, relies on outside contractors for some of its most essential equipment -- such as the US giant General Electric for the engine, and Italy's Selex for the combat radar. That could limit what technology it could ultimately transfer.

Brazil's aim is to not just buy aircraft off-the-shelf, but to use the purchase to boost its ambitions of becoming one of the 21st century's great powers.

Lula said Brazil's increasing clout on the world stage, and its natural resources in the Amazon and in offshore oil fields, required a defense industry to match.

For During, the essential criteria in the jet fighter bid were: How much technology will be transferred? What will Brazilian industry get out of it? What are Brazil's long-term geo-political goals?

"We already have a deal with France. Should we reinforce it? If we negotiate with the US, will we be forced to toe the line on its policies? Are there advantages to negotiating with the Swedes? These are the questions on Brazil's side," he said.

The price per plane -- one of the criticisms of the Rafale by its rival bidders -- "is not fundamental," During said.

"It's the operating cost that counts. The cost per hour of flight, of maintenance, of the electronics. We are a poor country and all this has to last for the next 30 years."

He added: "The Rafale is not the most expensive offer in terms of operating cost. That's the F/A-18."

Sarkozy is already set to sign a couple of other defense deals with Brazil during his stay.

They will confirm previously announced agreements for Brazil to buy 50 of Eurocopter's EC-725 troop transport helicopters, and the purchase of five s