Rafale F3 leading Brazilian F-X race on the promise of extensive tech transfer over Super Hornet

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sentinel28a 9/25/2009 3:54:21 PM

Hell yes, Kardinal. Look at all the doodads the UAE stuck on its F-16Es. Kinda makes me wonder...they've got advanced targeting, conformal fuel tanks...but the UAE isn't at war with anyone at the moment, and has never tried to take on Israel. (And for all the anti-Israeli rhetoric that occasionally comes out of there, aren't likely to try.) Which means--the UAE is keeping a very wary eye on Iran. I don't see a joint Arab-Israeli strike on the Iranians, but I wouldn't be surprised if some of the Gulf Kingdoms wouldn't take advantage of the confusion after a post-Israeli strike to get in some digs of their own. The Bahrainis in particular utterly loathe the Iranians.

And no, BW, you haven't been dropping LSD. You have a good man in Sarkozy, someone who's finally realized that the Iranians are a hell of a lot closer to France than they are to the US. Obama is just an incompetent who thinks all it takes to get the Iranians to play nice is a good speech and a hug. Plus Sarkozy's old lady is a lot more sexay than Michelle.

Does the Rafale have an option for a different engine besides the M88? I ask because the F-16 can accept at least two different kinds of engines, and I just wondered if Dassault has considered this.

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FJV 9/25/2009 5:46:00 PM

I 'm biting . What do you mean exactly ? If you 're talking about integration of indigenous weapons it is correct , but what "heavily modifications" are you talking about ? In what sense ?

Custom electronics, making a dedicated EW Rafale, putting in your own radar or putting several radars on the Rafale. Or maybe modding the Rafale's wings similar to how the Israelis and South Africans modded Mirages. Maybe put on a thrust vectoring nozzle.

I suspect it is easier to mod a Rafale than a JSF, because a change you make in one area is less likely to effect something else in another. My hunch is that the more intergrated the systems are the more difficult it is to avoid having a change in one area effect something somewhere else. My hunch is that because of this reason the F22 is hugely complex to upgrade (each change will have to be checked against the entire F22 systems and all their interactions).

Also I've read somewhere that mission critical components not manufactured in the US will not be installed in the JSF even when they are of better quality. This suggest to me that a nation putting custom electronics in a JSF to make an EW version will not be appreciated. Modern AESA like antennas with a narrow beam could theoretically jam one arc in front of a plane and still deny detection of the EW signal outside that arc. (if you have the sidelobes under control)

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Bluewings12 9/25/2009 8:36:33 PM

Sentinel :

""Hell yes, Kardinal. Look at all the doodads the UAE stuck on its F-16Es. Kinda makes me wonder...they've got advanced targeting, conformal fuel tanks...but the UAE isn't at war with anyone at the moment, and has never tried to take on Israel. (And for all the anti-Israeli rhetoric that occasionally comes out of there, aren't likely to try.) Which means--the UAE is keeping a very wary eye on Iran. I don't see a joint Arab-Israeli strike on the Iranians, but I wouldn't be surprised if some of the Gulf Kingdoms wouldn't take advantage of the confusion after a post-Israeli strike to get in some digs of their own. The Bahrainis in particular utterly loathe the Iranians.""

Well , it took me time to try to understand what you meant . What you say is ... surprising and interesting .

The UAE are indeed very worried about Iran and this is the reason why they allowed France to set-up bases (Air and Navy) on their soil . They see it as a warranty (guarantee) for not being attacked from anyone , including Iran .

After building such new alliances in the Gulf , I was myself waiting for a stronger move from N. Sarkozy against Iran . It is part of France 's new position on the Middle-East .

It happens now .

France (and Sarkozy) is dead serious about Iran and I feel the same "urgent need" than back in 1991 before the GW1 .

Iran can 't get Nuclear weapons , it is a simple as that and if France and others have to bomb the sh*t out of their installations , we will . Then , letting israel do the job would lead to even more problems in the region .

To be honest , it would be better if Europe would take the lead on the Iranian problem for 2 reasons :

-1) nobody could say that the USA are "backing" Israel (usual Arab 's excuse)

-2) We do thing by the rules set by the UN and we follow them to the letter

To this extent , it seems that G. Brown and Medvedev are following .

""Obama is just an incompetent who thinks all it takes to get the Iranians to play nice is a good speech and a hug""

Not at all , you are wrong about Him . All He wants is to change the American mind on "How to spread the Democracy and free market around the World" . He doesn 't want you think "Fighters and Guns" as much as you did before .

If Europe is getting harsher on Iran (we will) B. Obama is going to support us , no worries .

""Does the Rafale have an option for a different engine besides the M88? I ask because the F-16 can accept at least two different kinds of engines, and I just wondered if Dassault has considered this.""

No . Snecma and its M88-2 and M88-3 series only .

Cheers .

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Bluewings12 9/25/2009 8:38:57 PM

FJV , gimme some time please . What you ask is interesting and I 'm having a bit of thinking before to post :-) .

Cheers .

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Bluewings12 9/25/2009 8:57:17 PM

Regarding Iran (maybe the wrong thread to talk about) but France , Russia , USA , UK and China have been looking into the Iranian nuclear program for a long time now and France , the USA and the UK just agreed on a new pressure on Iran .

The Iranian president is furious and is threatening (from the G20) :

""The United States, France and Great Britain will regret their shared condemnation of Iran building a second site for uranium enrichment, said Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad in New York.""

He 's going to get a harsh wake-up call soon ...

Cheers .

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usajoe1 9/25/2009 9:04:24 PM

France (and Sarkozy) is dead serious about Iran and I feel the same "urgent need" than back in 1991 before the GW1 .

Sarkozy is full of air. There is nothing France can do alone. Without the US. France and Britain can't do anything about Iran, Period. So stop the nonsense.

Iran can 't get Nuclear weapons , it is a simple as that

What??? are you drunk?

and if France and others have to bomb the sh*t out of their installations , we will .

LOL!!! You will? with what. BW please stop this crap!

To be honest , it would be better if Europe would take the lead on the Iranian problem for 2 reasons :

Europe could not even take the lead in Bosnia and Kosovo, and you want them to take the lead in Iran?

-1) nobody could say that the USA are "backing" Israel (usual Arab 's excuse)

Without the US there is no military action with Iran kid.

-2) We do thing by the rules set by the UN and we follow them to the letter

Why don't you just stop posting this kind of garbage you idiot!!!

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Bluewings12 9/25/2009 9:11:25 PM

Are you being serious Joe or are you looking for another flame war , because you are just about to get one .

And in both sense .

Cheers .

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usajoe1 9/25/2009 9:26:32 PM

Are you being serious Joe or are you looking for another flame war , because you are just about to get one .

And in both sense .

I'm looking for you to stop making dumb and inflammatory remarks!

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Bluewings12 9/25/2009 10:03:42 PM

Joe :

""I'm looking for you to stop making dumb and inflammatory remarks!"

Nothing I said is dumb and certainly not inflammatory (unless you only respect the Stars&Stripes flag) .

Do you have any idea on how France would stop Iran to get nuclear weapons using military means ?

You don 't .

I help you Joe :-)

Look on the map where the main Iranian nuclear installations are . If you don 't get it , it is because you don 't know us well enough .

Then , it seems that the UK would not stand still (and if Russia is following , it would help but not be critical in itself) .

Then it also seems that you underestimate grossly the power of a Nation like France and to this extent , you present the Kosovo and Bosnian Campaign as the best that we can do (???) . Are you forgetting that France was not at war ?

During the Kosovo and Bosnian Campaigns , nothing changed here in France . We didn 't even built a single aircraft more or a single tank more ! It was a light projected force on nearby friendly airfields . Do you want to try to compare it at what is capable when the national territory is at stakes ? Are you MAD ?

4 to 5 years ago , we were talking about the French Forces in the Gulf or near by (Djibouti , etc ) . Now , we can use up to 75 aircraft in our UAE bases , another 50 or so in Djibouti and about 25 at Sea on the CdG .

If you are an Iranian Air Force Chief of staff , do you understand what it means when you have no AWAC and an old ageing airforce made of 70's fighters with almost no spare parts ? You 're fuc*ed !

Then and that was my point , France can perfectly use a low grade ASMP (2 to 3 kilotons) to hammer the Iranian surface nuclear infrastrustures and EMPs the rest . We don 't mind as some are right in the middle of nowhere .

Cheers .

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Slim Pickinz 9/25/2009 10:12:01 PM

BW I'm sorry but you clearly have no idea what you're talking about when it comes to Iran. NO ONE would use a nuclear weapon to destroy Iran's nuclear facilities, even a low yield one. It completely defeats the purpose. We are talking about non-proliferation, and the use of nukes would cause an international condemnation and certainly draw fire from whatever Iran could throw back at you.

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