sentinel :

Duplex , Dassault indeed need the Brazilian deal but is not desesperate . Dassault makes 85% of its turn over in business jets . It is certainly a good deal of money for them and it would help them to keep the cost as it is currently in the assembly lines . Since France ordered "X" rafales for "that" money , it is up to Dassault to do what they can to not loose money on the deal . Pushing to 1.7 aircraft built per month (the existing line can do 3 aircraft per month) would surely help .

You see , I am not screaming "Cocorico , vive le Rafale !" , the Brazilian deal is an opportunity for both Nations , the Rafale is only one part of the deal . 

If France (and Dassault) is loosing the Brazilian market , the Rafale 's futur in the international market will indeed be dim .We might sell a couple here and there but that 's all . To be honest , I wouldn 't mind if France was the sole user of the Rafale ;-)

SlowMan :

SlowMan :

Slow does have a point here, BW.  If France sold the Rafale to China, one could expect a reverse-engineered copy on the market within a few years.  I think France got burned on that already, and I would highly doubt that Dassault would cut its own throat by selling anything to China.

 

Russia would be the same.  While war between France and Russia is remote, one could also reasonably expect the Russians to reverse-engineer French tech onto their own fighters.  There is always the possibility that France and Russia could go at it, if not in Europe, perhaps elsewhere.  I think France would be incredibly stupid to sell the Russians anything that could be used against them...but then again, France sold Israel down the river and promptly started supplying Arab nations with Mirages.  The thanks they got for it was assorted terrorist attacks and bombings; they certainly didn't get peace with the Arab world by betraying Israel.  So yes, France has done something stupid before--though it should be mentioned that the Mirage 5 deal was all de Gaulle, while Marcel Dassault argued vehemently against de Gaulle's decision.  I'm thinking Dassault didn't exactly mind overmuch when Israel started producing strangely similar Neshers...

 

About Russia buying helicopter carrier designs from France--why?  Russia already has proven they can make good helo carriers themselves.  Where the money is going to come from is another question here.  France isn't just going to give the Russians stuff like that--at least I hope they don't.

sentinel , we are having a non sense debate . France is not going to sell Rafale to China or Russia , period .

**************

What Russia will do with the ships are not a concern to us French (they will certainly not land on our beaches !?) .

 

Cheers .

 

 

Sentinel :

To go back on topic , what are the chances for Brazil to ask France in the next 3 to 5 years for a futur joint-program Aircraft Carrier ?

What do you think ? Is it possible ? Is Brazil heading for a true blue Navy ? These are interesting questions , not only about military means but also about Geopolitics .

 

Myself , I expect such a move but I am only guessing . They want top of the line attack Subs and they probably remember the Falklands conflict where the Argentinians lost their main battle ship to a UK sub because of a lack of Sea support (the UK sub might have scored anyway and regarding) . For Brazil , buying the Rafale M and a 60.000tons aircraft carrier (probably with some parts built in Brazil , providing jobs and ToT) would be an interesting deal .

The 3 versions of Rafales share more than 80% the same technology and parts and the maintenance cost would be the same than for the MN (which is good so far) .

Attack Subs , Carrier , Frigates and they are good to go regarding the South-American continent .

 

Cheers .

 

Just a nice picture , 2 different look ,2 different bird :

(3 Rafales , 2 Typhoons)

 

 

The French bird is better looking ...

 

Cheers .

When we sold F-14s to Iran, we sold them to a regime that was friendly to Americans (if not to it's own people, more bad on us).  The French selling Exocets to Argentina was fine, since no one anticipated the Argies to be dumb enough to actually try to take the Falklands by force (including the Argentinian people).  The French selling Mistral to Russia would be like selling the local Mafia guns to shake you down with.

 

No arguments on which is prettier, the Rafale or the Typhoon: the Rafale.  The Typhoon is a great fighter, but man, it rivals the F-4 in the ugly department.