Rafale F3 leading Brazilian F-X race on the promise of extensive tech transfer over Super Hornet

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maruben Hugo and Obama 9/21/2009 7:34:10 PM

What is the current US position regarding H. Chavez and his foolish behavior ?

We have some news and reports here in France and it seems that the Obama admin (POTUS , Pentagone , NSA) are keeping a good eye on the clown with a sarcastic smile . Is that correct ?

Cheers .

Can't say what DoD's is, but Obama's official position is "I'm bending over, Hugo!"

I am not sure but if I recall the news correctly, after Hugo went to Moscow to buy some new toys, the US and Colombian Governments with the backing of Moscow declared that if some SAMs acquired from Moscow ended in hands of the Colombian FARC there will be repercussions.

Few months ago few AT-4 missiles were found by the Colombian Army in a FARC's base. Sweden confirmed that those missiles were bought and owned by the Venezuelan Army and requested an explanation.

AT-4 is a portable one-shot anti-tank... weapon... built in Sweden... by Saab Bofors Dynamics... (previously Bofors Anti Armour Systems)

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Slim Pickinz BW 9/21/2009 8:40:14 PM

Bluewings it's best just to ignore Slowman's last post....about 99% of what he says is pure BS. ie his ridiculous notion that South Korea and Japan are going to duke it out in a full scale war over a couple of disputed rocks.

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Bluewings12 9/21/2009 8:46:11 PM

Slim , you might be right but I am going to look into it before to make my mind .

Chhers .

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SlowMan 9/21/2009 9:19:55 PM

@ Bluewings12

> Where is that coming from ?

AP as per linked source, of course.

> I can hardly believe that the Russians would ask for French help about Nukes powered Carriers.

Russians are probably interested in learning about western method of running a carrier operation, since their own has been pretty much a disaster.

Unfortunately, Chinese are trying to replicate what Russians abandonded.

> Russia will never (read my lips) buy the Rafale . It is impossible .

But you were telling us here how great Rafale was. Russians would love to have a piece of Rafale's greatness, right?

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Bluewings12 9/21/2009 9:36:01 PM

SlowMan :

""Russians are probably interested in learning about western method of running a carrier operation, since their own has been pretty much a disaster.""

That , I can understand but France doesn 't see Russia as friendly enough to share such knowledge . No worries .

""Unfortunately, Chinese are trying to replicate what Russians abandonded.""

You should say "fortunately" ;-) If the Chinese are following the Russians on how to run Carrier Ops , we are all safe for the next 20 years , lol !

""But you were telling us here how great Rafale was. Russians would love to have a piece of Rafale's greatness, right?""

No , I 'm not biting on your very poor bait ;-)

Let 's be serious . Russia has very little to learn from us , at least not enough to sign a very expensive deal . Then , we will never sell Rafale to Russia (that would be suicidal) . The Rafale has indeed some tricks up its sleeve that the SUs and Migs don 't have but we keep it where it belongs : onboard French fighters .

Cheers .

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sentinel28a 9/22/2009 3:31:38 AM

The Russians don't have to buy a French carrier to figure out how the West runs carrier operations--for one thing, they've been observing us for the past 50 years, and for another, given that the Cold War is over (though Putin seems to want to restart it), there's nothing preventing Russian naval observers from coming aboard the de Gaulle or the Reagan.

From the latest articles I've read, Putin has next to no interest in expanding the Russian Navy beyond its current size, and the Russian Navy is barely able to keep the ships it does have in service. Even if France was dumb enough to sell a carrier to Russia, the Russians couldn't afford to buy it. (Brazil might be a different story, if the Brazilians are willing to foot the bill for it.)

BW, you're not claiming that the Rafale has a lower RCS than the F-22, are you? Because I really don't want to revisit that subject.

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gf0012-aust 9/22/2009 4:54:47 AM

Some eye popping article here <link... >

"Russia starts talks to buy French warship: minister

Officials at the French Defense Ministry would not comment Saturday

about the possible sale. French media have reported in recent weeks
that Russia is interested in a Mistral-class carrier, and that the
Russians are studying different options.
Popovkin said French technologies could help Russia build its own
aircraft carriers. He said Russian shipbuilders strongly oppose the
purchase.
Popovkin said the government has yet to make a decision on whether Russia needs to build costly aircraft carriers."

Suppose Russia buys a PA2 carrier, will it operate Su-33s or Rafales? Or will Russia try to fit PAK-FA with French radar and avionics to make it more marketable to foreign customers?

not sure why, but the articles you get excited about always seem to be missing other critical bits and pieces.

From DefenseNews Sept 14 2009: (subscriber)

Adm Vladimir Vysotski said:

"I confirm that negotiations for the purchase of a Mistral are underway, but it is highly probably that tenders will be sought. Several countries in the world possess similar technology, including in particular the Netherlands and Spain"

He added:

"We will not only buy the helicopter carrier, but also the technology for building it"

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duplex 9/22/2009 6:56:27 AM

Nan , none of the critical French technology (onboard the Rafale) will be given to Brazil .

If China is getting access to French technology , it will be when we 'll agree to make a direct deal with them .

Cheers .

BLUEWINGS.. THERE ARE ALWAYS TWO

PARTIES IN A NEGOTIATION AND THIS TIME BRAZIL IS STRONGER THAN DASSAULT AND THEY ARE NEGOTIATING HARD THE THING IS THAT DASSAULT CAN'T AFFORD TO LOSE THIS ONE AFTER KOREA,SINGAPORE AND MOROCCO . IT WOULD BE DEVASTATING SO BRAZILIANS WILL ASK FAR MORE THAN THEY EXPECT TO GET AND THEY MIGHT JUST GET IT ! .BRAZIL HAS ALTERNATIVES WAITING BEHIND THE DOOR..A GROUP OF BRAZILIAN ENGINEERS ARE ALREADY IN SWEDEN DISCUSSING THE DETAILS OF A POSSIBLE COLLABORATION WITH SAAB.
IF DASSAULT LOSE THIS ONE THAN THE FUTURE OF RAFALE IN INTERNATIONAL MARKETS WILL BE VERY VERY DIM. INDIA? NO CHANCE.. SH ( INDIA'S RELATIONS WITH THE US IMPROVED TREMENDOUSLY AFTER THE NUCLEAR DEAL ) OR RUSSIANS MIG -35 WILL GET IT. . UAE?? THE CHANCES ARE FAR LESS THAN IN BRAZIL

BECAUSE IN CONTRAST TO BRAZIL ,THE US HAS STILL A BIG INFLUENCE IN THE GULF. FRENCH MILITARY BASES IN THE GULF ALONE WOULD NOT HELP FRANCE TO SELL RAFALE BECAUSE THE WHOLE WORLD AS WELL AS THE ARABS KNOW THAT IF IRAN ATTACTS THE GULF STATES I T WILL BE THE US AND ONLY THE US THAT WILL AND CAN DEFEND THE REGION ,NOT FRANCE. SO IN THE END,THE EMIRATES MIGHT DECIDE TO BUY SOME MORE BLOCK 60'S AND POSTPONE THE DECISION INDEFINITELY. WHAT DO YOU THINK?

ANYWAY WE WILL WAIT AND SEE HOW RAFALE WILL END IN BRAZIL..

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duplex 9/22/2009 7:01:49 AM

SlowMan :

""Russians are probably interested in learning about western method of running a carrier operation, since their own has been pretty much a disaster.""

That , I can understand but France doesn 't see Russia as friendly enough to share such knowledge . No worries .

""Unfortunately, Chinese are trying to replicate what Russians abandonded.""

You should say "fortunately" ;-) If the Chinese are following the Russians on how to run Carrier Ops , we are all safe for the next 20 years , lol !

""But you were telling us here how great Rafale was. Russians would love to have a piece of Rafale's greatness, right?""

No , I 'm not biting on your very poor bait ;-)

Cheers .

I THINK THALES MAKES SUPERIOR AVIONICS VIS-A-VIS RUSSIANS

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SlowMan 9/22/2009 10:12:10 AM

@ Bluewings12

> That , I can understand but France doesn 't see Russia as friendly enough to share such knowledge . No worries .

So what are you saying, the offer of 100% tech transfer for the purchase of 36 Rafales don't extend to Russia?

> Let 's be serious . Russia has very little to learn from us

Russia would love to have access to western military electronics tech, since their own is lacking.

> Then , we will never sell Rafale to Russia (that would be suicidal).

I am not so sure, by looking at French desperation to sell Rafale overseas to anybody and everybody.
I can't wait to see "100% tech transfer with the purchase of 36 Rafales deal signed with Russia" news in the future.

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