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Subject: Rafale F3 leading Brazilian F-X race on the promise of extensive tech transfer over Super Hornet
SlowMan    8/4/2009 3:43:03 PM
< link > Contenders Rafale F3 : $130 million per plane + extensive tech transfer Super Hornet : $90 million per plane, weapons and support + will buy some parts from Brazilian suppliers. Gripen NG : $60 million per plane. Will build half of NGs in Brazil. Rafale F3 is favored over Super Hornet because of the promise of an extensive tech transfer.
 
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cwDeici       9/18/2009 4:30:04 AM
I just came back to say that I remembered BW said F-teens, that's not so bad, but still insane as the Rafale has a record of underperformance in Serbia and A-stan, in stark contrast to the F-teens.
 
DasKardinal: I only caught a few of your words Kardinal, something about nazi (I can only assume you're comparing me to a Nazi as to how I am treating BW.) In my defense or offense I will just make the excellent argument that this is how he treats other people, though perhaps he doesn't go so far the things he says about others are untrue, while what I say about him probably is. I and many others have been quite patient with him to begin with.
 
The salient fact is he is damaging this forum, which I and many others enjoy reading. Thus using the likely truth against him is a just weapon and self defense.
 
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cwDeici       9/18/2009 4:34:54 AM
So that handles personality, morality and ethics.

If you made any riposte about my areas of expertise, they are quite firmly outside of avionics. While I am quite knowledgeable in other fields I am simple poster in this with the desire to read high-quality commentry free of the highest levels of bias and denial that utterly derail and corrode the entiriety of a thread.
 
 
Sympathy for malicious trolls is foolishness. This dragon isn't going to turn into fantasy royalty if you give it a kiss. People have tried.
So if you were hacking at me for getting rid of this person then you're a fool.
 
I actually enjoyed this thread up until about the fifth page. 
 
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cwDeici       9/18/2009 4:43:09 AM









Whether it's accurate or not makes no difference.  It's how business works.







 







No, that's how AMERICAN business (lack of) ethics works along with bribery and corruption.





















Right.  We Americans invented bribery and corruption, along with a lack of business ethics.  Everything was just fine until those assholes we refer to as the Founding Fathers decided to declare independence from the sweet, loving, caring genius of George III.  And in the process we bankrupted France! BRILLANT! 



 



I bet we invented Black Plague and caused the fall of the Roman Empire, too.  I wish I was European, so I could blame everything on someone else.








Hey the Muslims are worse. And you're pretty much dealing with a Frenchman here, they're twice as bad.

 

I'm half Norwegian and it's true, Europe has entered its decadent phase.

 

 

PS. Bluewings has been derailings threads for years too.


So yeah, I don't like beating up on retards. It may be easy but it makes me feel emotionally tired. I just want my SP nice and clean.
About Frenchmen being twice as bad (not as Muslims of course), just twice as bad as some other Europeans.
 
 
In terms of discrimination it's probably:    Muslims>Chinese>Europeans(including leftist Americans... especially the French)>right-wing Westerners
 
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cwDeici       9/18/2009 4:48:35 AM
PS. I haven't read any posts after my last one in the tirade, so my response should be lacking and might possibly be off. This is because I have traits of emotional hypersensitivity.
Also going so harsh on BW might make it seem like I have trouble similar to anything I happen to accuse him off, however I assure any readers that I am simply pissed with having to read his crap for over a year now since I joined.
 
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cwDeici       9/18/2009 4:54:01 AM
As to my own posting record - I've a number of well-structued supplies, some fodder and some jokes. I've put about half an hour of work into a series of short posts on Pakistan. They're short but correct and have predicted the future of P-stan better than SPs own articles.
 
Read Longwarjournal.org, that's my source.
 
So I think it's quite reasonable that while I am ADHD (and thus without an editbutton an excessive multiposter) I am also reasonably well-behaved, innocent and smart (135-145 IQ) and with a third-cultural background (so my loyalties are few except to religion, family, friends and the West).
 
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cwDeici       9/18/2009 4:55:24 AM
Two last things about tech transfers and planes. Yes, the US imports some parts from the French avionics industry, but it's mostly the other way around (by far).
 
Furthermore SP rates the Rafale as less capable than the F-16 in its warplanes database.
 
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Blue Apple       9/18/2009 6:19:52 AM
And Airbus never attempted to smear Boeing's products?  I hate telling you this, BlueApple, but it's called competition.  You think Boeing is going to say, "You know, our Super Hornet is inferior to the Rafale, but you should buy it anyway."  I'm sure Dassault's representatives were echoing BW's assertions that the Super Hornet stinks and the Rafale rules all.  If they weren't, they should be, because it's their livelihood.
 
Did I say anything about scuh tactics being unfair? All I'm trying to do is provide some context information that may explain why there was a sudden anouncement several weeks before the expected end of the evaluation phase.
 
Of course I expect Boeing, Dassault and SAAB to spread FUD about their competitors. I also expect bribing, political pressure and broken promises for such large deals. From all sides (US companies included).
 
 
The only reaction I'm hoping for is that you and others, BW included begin to realise and publicly admit that Rafail is simply one of many 4.5Gen  fighters in existence.
 
Well, it's already the case for BW (as seen on another thread...):
 
Why don't you just agree that the Rafale, Typhoon and Super Hornet are all fairly closely matched in capabilities and will become even more closely matched once Typhoon and Rafale receive AESA radar's.
 
I agree with that , no problem . They are indeed of very high quality , but it also depends on the mission . Typhoon and Rafale are better tailored for A2A than the SH , but the SH and the Rafale are better tailored for A2G than the Typhoon (as it stands) . Out of the three , I go for the French Fighter .
 
You see, he's actually more level-headed than most of the posters bashing the Rafale. It's only when people start making outrageous claims about his favorite plane that he feels the need to posts his "Rafale-uber-alles" rants.
 
Basically, it's some king of sick, twisted game. Some idiots claims that the Rafale is the worst plane in the world for x/y/z reason and BW answers with claims that Rafale is the best plane in the world for a/b/c. Then it devolves in a perverse collective lynching with flocks of posters letting go of all their angst by attacking BW. It's the kind of mob mentality that's only possible on an anonymous forum.
 
 
Although neither the SH nor Rafale versions offered to Brazil are identical to what is already in service, in the US case the aircraft offered is very very close, while the Rafale requires a great deal of additional work.  It makes no sense to compare what the SH has been capable of doing for years with what the Rafale is expected to be capable of in another few years if development programs go well.
 
For a foreign country shopping, of course it does. Otherwise Gripen NG, F-16 IN, F-15 SE... would never be evaluated.
 
that doesn't change the fact that France is limited by the RBE2's back-end.
 
The RBE2 back-end has always been designed to be used with an active front-end. Unless you can demonstrate with a source that the fully reprogrammable RBE 2 back-end is somehow limited, your statement is not a fact but a mere opinion (with which I disagree as pretty much all the plane electronics were replaced during the F1->F2 transistion, any limitation on the radar side would have been treated at the same time).
 
 
as the Rafale has a record of underperformance in Serbia and A-stan
 
Then please provide this record of underperformance in Afghanistan and Serbia. Although it's going to be hard to demonstrate anything about a theater (Serbia) where the Rafale was never used...
 
I just want my SP nice and clean.
 
Your SP? I suggest you go and see a psychiatrist, claiming ownership of an internet board is a clear sign of a troubled mind.
 
And given that you managed to clutter the last tow pages with your rants/posts, I suggest a simple solution: stop posting.
 
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Das Kardinal       9/18/2009 6:39:11 AM

I just came back to say that I remembered BW said F-teens, that's not so bad, but still insane as the Rafale has a record of underperformance in Serbia and A-stan, in stark contrast to the F-teens.

 

DasKardinal: I only caught a few of your words Kardinal, something about nazi (I can only assume you're comparing me to a Nazi as to how I am treating BW.) In my defense or offense I will just make the excellent argument that this is how he treats other people, though perhaps he doesn't go so far the things he says about others are untrue, while what I say about him probably is. I and many others have been quite patient with him to begin with.

 

The salient fact is he is damaging this forum, which I and many others enjoy reading. Thus using the likely truth against him is a just weapon and self defense.


First off, you must have misread, for I didn't use the N word against you. Besides, the N word is so overused (like "racist") that it lost any meaning in my eyes long ago.
Then, you'll have to point me to a post by BW where he's petitioning SP to have another poster banned. 
So you've got psychological issues. OK, no problem, it happens, and it takes some courage to admit it publicly. But since you're aware of it, just... work on it. For a start, try not post a dozen messages one after the other. I dunno, write everything in a text editor, review it, and when you're sure you wrote everything you wanted to say, then post. And remember that sometimes, you have to agree to disagree.

Blue Apple adequately addressed the rest. I'll add just this : you're basing your evaluation of the competing planes on SP's outdated table ? ROFL !
 
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Bluewings12    To cwDeici   9/18/2009 8:55:17 AM
This thread is now a real mess , thanks cwDeici .
Here is my advice to you , you can smoke as much hashish as you want and insult the billion+ Muslim of the World , but do it somewhere else than here on SP .
 
Blue Apple and Kardinal said everything who had to be said so there is no use for me to add anything more .
I believe that Sysops is probably keeping a good eye on you ...
 
Cheers .
 
 
 
 
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Bluewings12    To cwDeici   9/18/2009 9:01:03 AM
By the way , I 've NEVER been in the aircraft industry and I never said so , where did you get that ???
My years in the Armed Forces were indeed in the AirForce but as a Commando and as a SpecialForces operative .
 
Cheers .
 
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