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Subject: Rafale F3 leading Brazilian F-X race on the promise of extensive tech transfer over Super Hornet
SlowMan    8/4/2009 3:43:03 PM
< link > Contenders Rafale F3 : $130 million per plane + extensive tech transfer Super Hornet : $90 million per plane, weapons and support + will buy some parts from Brazilian suppliers. Gripen NG : $60 million per plane. Will build half of NGs in Brazil. Rafale F3 is favored over Super Hornet because of the promise of an extensive tech transfer.
 
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gf0012-aust       9/12/2009 8:00:29 PM

My Lord , what a dogfighter ! 


get a grip.  

a still photo needs to be seen in context, it needs to be seen as part of all its neighbouring frames along with the ROE's or context behind that event to have any meaning - at all.

one still photo does not a story or capability make ....

 
 
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Bluewings12       9/12/2009 8:31:46 PM
gf :
""get a grip.  
a still photo needs to be seen in context, it needs to be seen as part of all its neighbouring frames along with the ROE's or context behind that event to have any meaning - at all.
one still photo does not a story or capability make ....""
 
Oooh , such a bad faith deserves a beating but I am not here for .
gf , the M2000 is known to be a top dogfighter you want it or not . This picture is very telling and  if you understand how FBW and FCS works , this can hardly be beaten . Pulling 3.5 gs when only making 93 knots while keeping such a clear lock (look at the "point" and the cannon line) is telling .
Myself , I see a Gripen getting waxed by a M2000-5 . One down .
 
Cheers .
 
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Bluewings12       9/12/2009 8:41:26 PM
gf , since you are an Ozzie man (and not a good one) , find me some pictures of your mighty Hornets doing this kind of performance against any other aircraft (I don 't ask for Gripen) ...
 
Cheers .
 
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gf0012-aust       9/12/2009 9:07:44 PM

gf , since you are an Ozzie man (and not a good one) , find me some pictures of your mighty Hornets doing this kind of performance against any other aircraft (I don 't ask for Gripen) ...

stop trolling.  it wouldn't matter if I was from Mars or if I was French.  It doesn't matter if it was a Rafale, F-22 or a cessna with a glass c0ckpit.

"Still shots" without neighbouring frames, or seen as video footage and not within context are borderline meaningless

go and learn the basics you idiot. 
 
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gf0012-aust       9/12/2009 9:09:52 PM
and for goodness sake, learn to read and comprehend peoples responses before auto-responding and verbally ejaculating in here.  It's tiresome, boorish and old.

 
 
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benellim4       9/12/2009 10:25:03 PM







My Lord , what a dogfighter ! 





get a grip.  




a still photo needs to be seen in context, it needs to be seen as part of all its neighbouring frames along with the ROE's or context behind that event to have any meaning - at all.




one still photo does not a story or capability make ....



 






Oh, I don't know gf. That pic does tell us a lot. The aircraft is extremely slow, it's at a nose-up attitude of over 20 degrees(assuming that's an alpha there on the left) and it looks to be bleeding energy in a 3g turn port turn.  If we're talking energy state, I'd say that aircraft is low on energy. I hope that's a 1v1 for the Rafail driver, because if it is a XvX (where X is a number greater than one) then he's dogmeat.
 
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benellim4       9/12/2009 10:29:32 PM
On second thought, it looks like he may have assumed a nose down attitude. Smart move, he needs to exchange PE for KE at under 100 knots. He's still low on energy.
 
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gf0012-aust       9/12/2009 11:00:05 PM
Oh, I don't know gf. That pic does tell us a lot. 

it tells a lot at a point in time - and to have robust analysis it needs the preceding and post snapshot frames present so as to form a more accurate picture.  As a parallel of how snapshots can be interpreted out of context then we need look no further than the Shornet "kill" on an F-22 and Tampa.  Series and context gets it closer to the truth.  If he knew anything about image analysis then he'd know that still shots always lack integrity against series shots.

the problem I have with BW is that he is an out and out troll who has the temerity to post images such as this as proof of life of technical events or as an example of capability.  time and time again he has come back and challenged people in here who you and I know are in the industry or are ex operators and thus have a greater clue. he's the french version of slowman, or the french version of australias "goon" from APA.

He frequently misunderstands technology, misquotes sources or is selective in the way he presents material - he has zero credibility except for excelling at screen scraping.

I don't have a problem with Rafale or french sales of weapons systems (unless they go to hostile countries).  I do have a problem with this muppet fronting as someone with technical credibility when his whole history on here has been as a one man fan club for anything french and often totally divorced from reality.  Across various techs I deal with the french on a regular basis - BW is just plain bad advertising for those companies.  Even they shake their head at some of the asinine things that he trots out as "evidence".
 
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Rufus       9/13/2009 3:05:26 AM
He is a troll... he is trying to replace something that is missing in his life by making a fool of himself on a message board. 
 
I really can't imagine what he thinks he is getting from this.  
 
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Phaid       9/13/2009 8:04:13 AM
"Dassault has until September 21 to "formalize before the Brazilian Air Force a commercial proposition for the Rafale fighter jet consistent with the parameters set by French President Nicolas Sarkozy," the Defense Ministry said in a statement late Friday.
...
 
"President Sarkozy is the only president up to now who has told me he not only wants to transfer the technology to Brazil, but also build the plane in Brazil and let our country have the option of selling to all Latin America what will be built here," Lula said.
 
"Now we have to see if Dassault can show the same flexibility as Sarkozy."
 ...
 
Lula stressed that "if someone wants to make a better offer (than France), let them do it. That's the way negotiations work."
 
The September 21 deadline also applies to the two sidelined rival bidders -- Boeing of the United States, offering its F/A-18 Super Hornet, and Sweden's Saab, with its Gripen NG -- which the Defense Ministry said were invited to submit proposals "seeking to match the French."
 
Exactly as I've been saying.
 
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