how about making the effort to get the technology terms correct in the first place?

"clean" refers to a traditional weapons carriage platform where the weapons are externally mounted and where none are mounted to give it the cleanest profile

as soon as you add weapons to that vehicle it is referred to as "dirty" - ie things are bolted on and disrupt the optimum measurements immediately.

hence why F-22, JSF, B2, B1 etc are "emissions elegant"

any capability bolted onto a platform instantly makes it "dirty" .

it would be nice if you stopped making things up (at the technical level) - try to stick to the facts that way we have no need to question your accuracy, competency and/or motive 

"For F-35, the whole avonics is off limit and Robert Gates is in Israel right now pressuring IAF officials to not integrate Israeli system or weapon and use F-35 as is, with already integrated weapons only." - slowman

 

and now the facts... (WITH A SOURCE!)

 

h*tp://www.star-telegram.com/business/story/1505790.html

"We may offer a base-line aircraft and tell them when we can retrofit weapons in development," Heinz said. (This is Brig. Gen. David Heinz, the F-35 program manager)

As I said quite clearly several times in this thread.  Integrating Israeli weapons is not the problem.  Their integration will need to be coordinated with the other program participants and scheduled, but there is no restriction on integrating Israeli weapons.

 

 

 

 

 

 

The 1970's called... they want some credit for the F-14...

 

 h*tp://www.flightglobal.com/pdfarchive/view/1982/1982%20-%202030.html

 

...and no, if the Typhoon is carrying weapons it is not clean.  Don't argue with people who know what they are talking about.

 

 

 

No it isn't a recent plan idiot.  There was never any question about integrating Israeli weapons, that is what I have been explaining to you.

 

 

Are you kidding? 

 

Let's try this step again. The signal emissions and returns measurements we take of an aircraft vary with its aspect and with its carriage.

 

If we take the Squall as an example, its best signal emissions and management regime is when it is subsonic, flying low to the ground, with no reheat, and with minimal load-out to act as a radar signal return. Even at that, the aspect plays an important role as it is biased toward front and top.  

 

We discussed this with the BW fan brigade, and now I discuss it with you. A combat aircraft is measured under every conceivable comdition that its builders can imagine. There is no STANDARD single point performance meassurement. There is a set of measurements that indicate a class set of performance characteristcs. Aircraft are dynamic systems that operate in a variable regime condition

 

That is what FLYING MACHINE actually means. An artifact that works over time to fly.

 

Sheesh. Even the basic basics he doesn't know.

 

Herald

 

     

slowman > There is nothing traditional about Typhoon's half-submerged AMRAAM carriage, which gives that clean profile.

Typhoon's RCS figure is measured with those four AMRAAMs.

 

 

 

The reason you said "clean" is because you didn't know what the word meant.

 

 

@ Herald12345



> Are you kidding?



No I am not.

Yes you are. CREF below.

> There is no STANDARD single point performance measurement.

Well, the RCS figures being quoted are lab measurements, (publicity measurements) the same way F-22 gets its quoted RCS figure. Of course the real world figure varies, even for F-22.

What you admitted here was two things. I know what I discuss, and you don't.

@ gf0012-aust

> Clean refers to the platform in a dismounted  condition.  ie sans external loads/weapons/packages.

Quoted Typhoon RCS figure is with four AMRAAMs for intercept mission. For RCS measurement, Typhoon was never clean; it was measured with four AMRAAMs.