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Subject: South Korea abandons consideration of stealth fighter development
Rufus    7/27/2009 12:25:43 PM
h*tp://www.koreatimes.co.kr/www/news/nation/2009/07/113_49176.html
 
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SlowMan       7/29/2009 11:16:30 AM
@ Herald
 
> mixing chamber

70% high-velocity exhaust + 30% low-velocity bypassed air = high velocity average exhaust.
45% high-velocity exhaust + 55% low-velocity bypassed air = low velocity average exhaust.
 
This is why a Gripen NG with a 22,000 lbs engine will supercruise, but not F-35 with a 40,0000 lbs engine.
 
Concorde had a thrust:weight ratio of 0.3, yet it was the fastest supercruiser of all time, faster than even F-22. Why? Its engines were turbojets, not turbofans.
 
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Herald12345       7/29/2009 11:40:45 AM


@ Herald


 

> mixing chamber




70% high-velocity exhaust + 30% low-velocity bypassed air = high velocity average exhaust.

45% high-velocity exhaust + 55% low-velocity bypassed air = low velocity average exhaust.

 

This is why a Gripen NG with a 22,000 lbs engine will supercruise, but not F-35 with a 40,0000 lbs engine.

 

Concorde had a thrust:weight ratio of 0.3, yet it was the fastest supercruiser of all time, faster than even F-22. Why? Its engines were turbojets, not turbofans.

And that too shows that you don't know what you talk about. Gripen, F-16, and Typhoon all exceed Machy 1 clean at MIL power. The Sparkie should do better than they do as it is less sticky at the transonic regime. More slip.
 
As for the plenum chamber,
 
 
There is ignorance which can be cured. Cure yourself. 
 

 
 
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SlowMan       7/29/2009 11:48:21 AM
@ Herald
 
> And that too shows that you don't know what you talk about.
 
Look who's talking.
 
> Gripen, F-16, and Typhoon all exceed Machy 1 clean at MIL power.
 
Typhoon can supercruise upto Mach 1.5 with four AMRAAMs because it is powered by two supercruising engines. Typhoon is the only certified Supercruising fighter you can buy today, excluding unavailable F-22.
Gripen NG supercruised at Mach 1.2 because it is powered by a supercrusing engine.
F-16 supercruise is a fabled urban legend but not proven.
 
>The Sparkie should do better than they do
 
F-35 is not a supercruise capable fighter. It was never engineered for supercruise nor is its engine designed for supercruise. Lockheed Martin never claimed supercruise capability for F-35.
 
> There is ignorance which can be cured. Cure yourself. 
 
You need more curing than I do.
 
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Herald12345       7/29/2009 12:11:15 PM

@ Herald

> And that too shows
that you don't know what you talk about.

Look who's talking.

> Gripen, F-16, and Typhoon all
exceed Mach 1 clean at MIL power.

Typhoon can supercruise upto Mach 1.5 with four AMRAAMs because it is powered by two supercruising engines. Typhoon is the only certified Supercruising fighter you can buy today, excluding unavailable F-22.

No the Typhoon can't. its more like Mach 1.123 with the two wingtip missiles only 
Gripen NG supercruised at Mach 1.2 because it is powered by a supercrusing engine.

F-16 supercruise is a fabled urban legend but not proven.

Proven IN BATTLE.
 
 
And I said exceed Mach 1. You like the other ignorant fanboys on this forum need to learn how to READ.
 

>The Sparkie should do better than
they do


F-35 is not a supercruise capable fighter. It was never engineered for supercruise nor is its engine designed for supercruise. Lockheed Martin never claimed supercruise capability for F-35.

And what exactly did I say? Get me LOUD and CLEAR. I said it should do better. Not that it would run around at Mach 1.5 on MIL power.  
 
> There is ignorance which can be cured. Cure yourself. 

You need more curing than I do.

Apparently not based on the above. I forgive your stubborn ignorance this time since English is not your first language, but LEARN that I am careful with what I say. The next time I will ascribe your errant nonsense to a character flaw that is not simple ignorance. You read me, child?
   

 
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SlowMan       7/29/2009 12:42:41 PM
@ Herald12345

> exceed Mach 1 clean at MIL power.

And says who, you?

> Source.

But your source says F-16 cannot supercruise. Is this some kind of joke here?

> And what exactly did I say?

You claimed F-35 could supercruise faster than a Typhoon with certified Mach 1.2 supercruise.

> but LEARN that I am careful with what I say.

You are not in a position to teach anyone with your flawed and limited knowledge.
 
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FJV    What's so special about super cruise   7/29/2009 12:51:13 PM
It's not that it is previously unheard of.
 
The English Electric ligthning could supercruise.
 
The Concorde could also all across the Atlantic.
 

 
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SlowMan       7/29/2009 12:58:10 PM
@ FVJ
 
> The English Electric ligthning could supercruise. The Concorde could also all across the Atlantic.
 
Both were powered by turbojets, not turbofans.
 
The key to supercruise is no or very-low bypass ratio in order to keep exhaust velocity high. 
 
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Rufus       7/29/2009 1:02:24 PM
"Look, press aren't invited into actual discussion between Gates and his Israeli counterparts, there is no transcript of the meeting nor any press conference. What we know is that it is Gates' agenda to pressure Israel to accept F-35 as is, no mod permitted."

Nor would any "mod" be needed to integrate Israeli weapons.  The issue is not the weapons, as you wrongly asserted.  It is whether or not Israel is given sufficient access to the F-35's computer systems to make themselves a second source for F-35 upgrades down the road.
 

> You DO realize that isn't Gates speaking right?

Well, the diplomatic source is talking about Gates' agenda of his Israel visit and why he is in Israel.


You DO realize that isn't Gates speaking right?  Lets get something through your thick skull right now.  You claimed that Gates said that was why he was in Israel.  That is a flat out lie. Nobody here is amused by your consistent inability to speak factually.
 
 
" It is the diplomats like him/her who negotiate agendas and topics of discussion before the high-ranking official(President, Secretary of State, or Defense Secretary)'s visit actually takes place. Most of agreements are made beforehand."
 
You have no idea who the diplomat in question is and what their agenda is.  That is the problem with quoting an unnamed "diplomat."  It could be darn near anyone from anywhere.  Not only that, but even the "diplomat" (note again, not Gates) didn't say a word about weapons integration.
 
You are a liar, and an idiot for thinking it might fool anyone.
 
" It is Gates' agenda that Israel take F-35 as is and drop the demand to integrate its weapons and systems."
 
... and we are back to your original false claim.  There is no question about whether or not Israel will be able to integrate its weapons.  That was how this whole discussion started.  It was when I asked you for a source that you started lying again.
 
You have repeated your original -false- assertion, but you have done nothing to support it.  All you have done is gotten caught lying again.
 
 
Real unimpressive kid. 
 
 
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SlowMan       7/30/2009 9:31:50 AM
@ Rufus

> Nor would any "mod" be needed to integrate Israeli weapons.

Then F-35 must be able to fire AMRAAMski out of box too.

> You DO realize that isn't Gates speaking right?

No, probably some US dimplomat who has been negotiating with Israeli on Gates' visitation agenda.

> You claimed that Gates said that was why he was in Israel.  That is a flat out lie.

Gate almost certainly said this as this was one of his top visitation agenda.

> Nobody here is amused by your consistent inability to speak factually.

Just you who happen to discredit published reports.

> You have no idea who the diplomat in question is and what their agenda is.

The Gates agenda is to promote F-35 by forcing Israeli to accept F-35 as is ASAP and not make F-22 demands.

>  Not only that, but even the "diplomat" (note again, not Gates) didn't say a word about weapons integration.

The diplmat said Gates were going to ask Israeli to accept F-35 as is, no modification what so ever.

> You are a liar, and an idiot for thinking it might fool anyone.

If you call the published report a lie, then you discredit yourself.
 
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Rufus       7/30/2009 1:34:26 PM
"Then F-35 must be able to fire AMRAAMski out of box too."
 
Yeah, because you haven't made enough of a fool of yourself so far... 
 
It is POSSIBLE to integrate foreign weapons onto the F-35.  That doesn't mean every weapon on earth will be integrated.  It takes time and money to integrate weapons.  If someone wants to pay to integrate the AA-12, then that is probably possible, though likely a lot more trouble than it is worth. 
 
Israeli weapons on the other hand, already use similar interfaces and hardware.  Those would be much easier to integrate and will almost certainly be integrated in short order, despite your idiotic claims to the contrary.
 

"No, probably some US dimplomat who has been negotiating with Israeli on Gates' visitation agenda."
 
Uh huh.... "probably some US diplomat."  That is the problem here.  None of us have any clue who the diplomat in question is, but it is most certainly NOT ROBERT GATES.  You lied, and now you are squirming to avoid admitting it. 
 
Just so you know there is no doubt your original lie is not forgotten, here it is:
 
"Robert Gates say otherwise"
 
He didn't, you are a liar, and an idiot for trying to avoid admitting it when it is already obvious to everyone.
 

"Gate almost certainly said this as this was one of his top visitation agenda. "
 
"almost certainly" lol 
 
This is why nobody takes fanboys seriously.  Even after they have made a fool of themselves by telling an obvious lie, they still can't find a way to just admit they were caught and walk away.  Instead they always seem to insist on drawing the whole process out and REALLY getting pounded.

"Just you who happen to discredit published reports."
 
Oh really?  Like the one you lied about, claiming Robert Gates said something he didn't?

"The Gates agenda is to promote F-35 by forcing Israeli to accept F-35 as is ASAP and not make F-22 demands."
 
You don't have a clue what Gates's agenda is.  You can't even quote him accurately but you want us to take your word for it that you know what his agenda is?  Get a clue fanboy. 
 

"The diplmat said Gates were going to ask Israeli to accept F-35 as is, no modification what so ever."
 
The diplomat in question, whoever it was,  was not quoted as saying anything of the sort. 
 
So this is just one more or your lies... why not lie I guess?  It isn't like anyone is going to question whether or not you are a liar so you might as well just go at it 100% right?
 

"If you call the published report a lie, then you discredit yourself."
 
I didn't call it a lie.  I didn't have to.  It simply didn't say anything similar to what you claimed it did. 
 
I mean making a claim and then posting a link that says nothing similar to your claim is pretty darn stupid don't you think?
 
 
 
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