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Subject: Internal Pentagon board found F-35 2 years behind schedule, mass production won't start until 2016
SlowMan    7/23/2009 4:52:22 PM
Pentagon Joint Estimate Team's F-35 program internal audit result < link >

- F-35 program is 2 years behind schedule and hit a $7.4 billion cost overrun.
- Mass production won't start until 2016, if not later.
 
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SlowMan       10/23/2009 5:06:01 PM
< link >
 
F-35 delay and cost overrun confirmed once again by Pentagon.
 
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sentinel28a       10/24/2009 3:18:44 AM
It wouldn't surprise me.  But check this out, from the linked article:
 
Asked about the InsideDefense.com report, a Defense Department spokeswoman, Cheryl Irwin, said she believed the joint estimate team was still carrying out its review.
 
So the Pentagon isn't confirming this.  InsideDefense.com is. 
 
Air Force Major General C.D. Moore, the F-35 program's deputy executive officer, said last month he was confident the program could meet its cost and schedule targets.
 
The USAF, then, is displaying confidence in the fighter.  It should, considering it's now the only show in town as far as new designs go.
 
And finally, this:
 
A new Pentagon study has affirmed previous findings that Lockheed Martin Corp's F-35 Joint Strike Fighter aircraft, the costliest U.S. arms purchase program, will require billions of dollars more than planned, and more time, an online news service said on Friday.
A military "joint estimate team" tasked in July to examine the program has found the F-35 program's performance "is not markedly improving," InsideDefense.com said, citing an unidentified source.
 
So we've got an online news service using sources they won't reveal (or don't know) about a Pentagon study that the Pentagon itself says isn't even done yet.  In fact, the very headline states: PENTAGON STUDY SHOWS F-35 JET TO COST MORE: REPORT.  InsideDefense is saying the Pentagon study has found the F-35 to be overrunning cost, not the Pentagon itself.
 
Now InsideDefense.com looks like a legit site, and it certainly wouldn't surprise me to find that the F-35 is going over cost.  It also wouldn't surprise me if Obama pulls the trigger on the F-35, since the only time he and the Democrats want to make budget cuts is in the military.  But this report is hardly "confirmation"--it's a big "maybe."
 
 
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usajoe1       10/24/2009 3:28:38 AM
Now InsideDefense.com looks like a legit site, and it certainly wouldn't surprise me to find that the F-35 is going over cost.  It also wouldn't surprise me if Obama pulls the trigger on the F-35, since the only time he and the Democrats want to make budget cuts is in the military.  But this report is hardly "confirmation"--it's a big "maybe."
 
I would be surprised, seeing as how the F-22 is now been put to rest. There is no way Obama will even think about pulling the trigger on the F-35, because what is the alternative, buy the only other 5th gen. fighter in the market, the Rafale? LOL! just could not help myself.
 
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jackjack       10/24/2009 7:12:22 AM
well seeing spectra seems to be mostly the same as the tigre/tiger helecopter, i guess this makes the tiger a 5th gen fighter too
 
from reading the net, it seems that the test flights were delayed because of wire seperation space in junction boxes that needed to be reworked
amd lm wanted upwards of 1/2 bil to get back on track. this was the story given to usg, pay lm or wait
 
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LB    Old News   10/25/2009 8:54:00 PM
The cited article is from July.  The new estimate is as high as $17 billion- see DoDBuzz.com Oct 23.
 
There is going to be a lot pressure to declare the F-35 in violation of Nunn-McCurdy by many in Congress and thus even more pressure to restructure the program.  The F-35 is heading toward a slow down.  Everyone who has accepted what the Program Office has been saying the past few years in the words of one congressional aide has "drunk the JSF Kool-Aid".
 
On one level this should be seen as positive in that the program does need to get a handle on cost growth and get back to a reasonable flight test schedule because the aircraft is very much needed.  The problem of course for the USAF is the death spiral of TACAIR due to pretty much not buying any airframes the past 10 years.  Betting the USAF on one single airframe prior to flight testing is going to turn out to be an extremely bad idea.  Congressional delegations are already fighting over air defense units. 
 
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RedParadize       10/25/2009 9:32:19 PM
Delay&Cost increase are a big tendency in the aeronautic industry...
I would not surprise me if the unit procurement cost is more than $140millions
Also, I would not surprise me if mass production start after  2020.
 
I never have been an optimistic guy lol
 
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french stratege       10/25/2009 9:33:13 PM
F35 is a very ambitious program.
Doing a stealth fighter of 13 tons empty and internal bay, while affordable and in 3 versions including a STOVL one on a common platform was very ambitious.
However with the US practice of cost plus contract, and lack of competition in USA (since Lockheed martin has now no real competitor in supplying 5th generation aircrafts), DoD is bound of what Lockheed martin does.
And as  Lockheed martin knows that DoD can not cancel the program, that  Lockheed martin  can live on internal US procurement and their no potential alternative in short term, it would not improve soon.
DoD should have got a 2 sources policy:
2 sources on avionic
2 sources on engine
2 sources on platform (one for STOL for example and one for navy and air force)
 
Boeing is starting to see the opportunity and working hard on F15 or F18 improvement on its own funds, just in case, or a "6th" (LOL) fighter.
 
Now, some people here may have a laugh on Rafale as a 5th generation platform but wait and see.
Dassault (and Thales and Safran) is compelled to do its best on Rafale since it has to invest 25% of program cost on its own revenues, and can only recover them by exporting.
Since Rafale F3 is available now since 2008, and operated in French forces, and AESA, a lot of potential customer are now suddenly much more interested in,  like UAE, Kuwait, and Brazil.
 
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gf0012-aust       10/25/2009 9:39:40 PM
lack of competition in USA (since Lockheed martin has now no real competitor in supplying 5th generation aircrafts), DoD is bound of what Lockheed martin does.
not so, Boeing and NG also have 5th generation flying asset expertise.  manned and unmanned.  LM may have the largest extant single contract pending, but they certainly do not hold the only 5th gen development and design expertise.

 
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