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Subject: Why 183 Raptors is NOT enough.
Herald12345    6/28/2009 2:53:01 PM
Study results follows in next post.

Herald
 
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LB    Taiwan Scenario   7/2/2009 10:23:02 PM
It might be worth considering that in a potential conflict over Taiwan both sides have an interest in limiting possible escalation and have a historical record in doing so.  The US and China fought a limited war in Korea and a more limited proxy war in Vietnam.  It's possible that the war would be limited to the naval and airspace in and around Taiwan and that the PRC would not target Anderson, Kadena, etc and that the US would not target the Chinese mainland- perhaps relying on Taiwan for such strikes.
 
One could game the scenario and determine that the PRC's best bet is to target US bases early but might also conclude that a surprise attack on the US would be politically extremely dangerous given the history of US responses to surprise attacks.  There is no question that an attack on any US base would lead to direct attack on Chinese military targets and then of course Chinese escalation in electronic, internet, satellite, and varied other means of attack.  Both nations have a history in containing limited wars and limiting escalation.  This is not to make a judgment about the probability of such a conflict remaining limited in scope but rather to point there is a significant possibility and that the discussion on this thread might at least consider both sides acting as rational actors and considering the other sides responses to their own actions.
 
In any case were such a scenario limited to a campaign limited to the naval and airspace in and around Taiwan then the ability of both sides to protect themselves from the other sides submarines make comparative asw capability extremely a compelling factor.  The ability of the US to maintain significant air superiority sorties over Taiwan could very well be the crucial factor in such a limited scenario where strike assests are limited to enemy naval assets and any forces that establish themselves ashore in Taiwan.  This is may even be more critical if the PRC is willing to launch a massive strike against Taiwan with a minimum level of warning and Taiwanese preparedness.
 
Indeed most of the scenarios I am aware do begin with the assumption that the PRC will begin with a massive strike against Taiwan's air and naval forces attempting to overwhelm them and push through air dropped and naval landed forces and overwhelm Taiwan before the US can intervene in strength and that the scope of the conflict at least starts as a limited one.  A scenario beginning with a PRC attack on a major US base like Anderson would have a very large number of possible outcomes not all of which are favorable to the PRC.  It's difficult to really know how the PRC views this issue, what the results of it's gaming the situation are, and most importantly whether the leadership believes those results and/or the assumptions behind them.
 
The Cuban Missile Crisis began with the notion by the Soviet leadership that the US leadership (JFK) was weak and would not vigorously respond.  War is essentially a political act.  Politicians err all the time and most wars have one or both sides engaging in serious miscalculation causing the political leaderships to make a choice for war that hindisight indicates as in error, irrational, or not that infrequently an act of national suicide.  It's difficult to imagine a conflict over Taiwan that did not include some serious miscalculation by one or both sides.
 
As an aside as the rising US savings rate indicates the US need not buy as much as one might have previously believed.
 
 
 
Quote    Reply

LB    Taiwan Scenario   7/2/2009 10:32:33 PM
It might be worth considering that in a potential conflict over Taiwan both sides have an interest in limiting possible escalation and have a historical record in doing so.  The US and China fought a limited war in Korea and a more limited proxy war in Vietnam.  It's possible that the war would be limited to the naval and airspace in and around Taiwan and that the PRC would not target Anderson, Kadena, etc and that the US would not target the Chinese mainland- perhaps relying on Taiwan for such strikes.
 
One could game the scenario and determine that the PRC's best bet is to target US bases early but might also conclude that a surprise attack on the US would be politically extremely dangerous given the history of US responses to surprise attacks.  There is no question that an attack on any US base would lead to direct attack on Chinese military targets and then of course Chinese escalation in electronic, internet, satellite, and varied other means of attack.  Both nations have a history in containing limited wars and limiting escalation.  This is not to make a judgment about the probability of such a conflict remaining limited in scope but rather to point there is a significant possibility and that the discussion on this thread might at least consider both sides acting as rational actors and considering the other sides responses to their own actions.
 
In any case were such a scenario limited to a campaign limited to the naval and airspace in and around Taiwan then the ability of both sides to protect themselves from the other sides submarines make comparative asw capability extremely a compelling factor.  The ability of the US to maintain significant air superiority sorties over Taiwan could very well be the crucial factor in such a limited scenario where strike assests are limited to enemy naval assets and any forces that establish themselves ashore in Taiwan.  This is may even be more critical if the PRC is willing to launch a massive strike against Taiwan with a minimum level of warning and Taiwanese preparedness.
 
Indeed most of the scenarios I am aware do begin with the assumption that the PRC will begin with a massive strike against Taiwan's air and naval forces attempting to overwhelm them and push through air dropped and naval landed forces and overwhelm Taiwan before the US can intervene in strength and that the scope of the conflict at least starts as a limited one.  A scenario beginning with a PRC attack on a major US base like Anderson would have a very large number of possible outcomes not all of which are favorable to the PRC.  It's difficult to really know how the PRC views this issue, what the results of it's gaming the situation are, and most importantly whether the leadership believes those results and/or the assumptions behind them.
 
The Cuban Missile Crisis began with the notion by the Soviet leadership that the US leadership (JFK) was weak and would not vigorously respond.  War is essentially a political act.  Politicians err all the time and most wars have one or both sides engaging in serious miscalculation causing the political leaderships to make a choice for war that hindisight indicates as in error, irrational, or not that infrequently an act of national suicide.  It's difficult to imagine a conflict over Taiwan that did not include some serious miscalculation by one or both sides.
 
As an aside as the rising US savings rate indicates the US need not buy as much as one might have previously believed.
 
 
 
Quote    Reply

Reactive       7/2/2009 11:36:55 PM
 Interesting to see how many of these have already been realised, that "disabling spillways" is potentially an easier-to-achieve means of realising dam failure. This is one of several commentaries on the dam i've read tonight, perhaps having built the world's largest dam, they are beginning to wonder if the costs, and risks are justified. 22.5GW is a vast amount of energy, most nuclear power stations are 1-2GW. It does seem like statements from the PRC have been resoundingly negative, it also seems herald was correct about silt/topsoil degredation downriver, Nice to know that however awful the consequences if it ever actually had to be realised, there is a non-nuclear deterent with so many dams on so many major rivers built with such sloppy workmanship and planning.
 
 
CHAPTER TEN

Dam Safety Analysis

by Philip B. Williams, Ph.D., P.E.

The consequence of failure at the Three Gorges Dam would rank as history?s worst man-made disaster. More than 75 million people live downstream on an intensively cultivated floodplain that provides much of China?s food. It is therefore reasonable to expect that a key design criterion for the project is ensuring that the risk of failure is kept extremely low.

Because of the limited operating experience with large dam projects of this type, and the disquieting number of safety incidents that have threatened the integrity of large dams in the last two decades, it is reasonable to expect that CYJV would use the best state-of-the-art techniques to demonstrate that the design, construction, operation and decommissioning of the project would keep the risk of failure acceptably low.

Unfortunately, CYJV does not address the safety issue either systematically or coherently. It provides no acceptable risk criteria, no mapping of the area and population at risk, no comprehensive risk assessment which identifies all the potential failure modes, and no identification of fail-safe measures. Because safety is not analyzed as a discrete topic, major failure mechanisms and combinations of failure mechanisms are ignored. There are many such possibilities; for example, a reservoir-induced earthquake that initiates new landslides close to the dam; sabotage or military action that disables spillway gates immediately before the flood season; unanticipated delays in construction leading to the overtopping and washing out of one of the cofferdams.*

Although CYJV discusses some safety issues, it makes many major assumptions and gross underestimations about the dam?s design which effectively put the probable risk of dam failure greater than the risk of a 1000-year flood for which the project is designed. Examples of the flaws in CYJV?s analysis are as follows:

  • Underestimation of earthquake ground accelerations

    One of the most important structural design criteria for a dam is the estimation of ground acceleration in the event of what is termed the maximum credible earthquake (MCE). For the Three Gorges design, a 6.5 magnitude earthquake occurring on a fault 17 kilometres away is used for structural analysis. There are substantial uncertainties in the selection of the MCE and also in the prediction of ground accelerations at various distances from the fault. CYJV uses a ground acceleration factor only one-third the value that would be used in a reasonably prudent design.1 CYJV?s use of these values effectively results in the most optimistic interpretation possible of likely ground accelerations due to earthquakes.

  • Inadequate analysis of reservoir-induced seismicity

    CYJV recognizes that the weight of the water in a large reservoir can initiate earthquakes. However, in developing ground acceleration design criteria, CYJV uses only historical records of earthquakes, which means that the design accelerations selected are likely to be too low and/or would occur more frequently than expected. In addition, there appears to be substantial uncertainty about the movement of the most important of these faults, since CYJV stresses the ?need for careful assessment?2 ? an assessment that presumably has not yet been undertaken.

    The treatment of reservoir-induced seismicity (RIS)3 is cursory and does not acknowledge the serious potential for structural damage, property damage and loss of life downstream that could occur. CYJV assumes that RIS occurs only on faults that are presently proven active, and implies that only short lengths of long faults close to the dam site would be activated. The length of faults passing under the dam itself and the displacement that would occur if these were activated are not identified. Therefore, it appears that the dam design is based on the optimistic assumption that no movement would occur on these faults, despite the experience with RIS elsewhere. For example, the Koyna Dam in India initiated an earthquake (approximately 6.0 in magnitude) that seriously damaged the dam and killed 200 people in an area that had not previously been seismically active.

  • Inadequate analysis of structural stability

    Apart from the optimistic estimates of ground acceleration during earthquakes and the fact that potential RIS is downplayed, it is clear that there are substantial unresolved problems related to the structural design of the dam which, if satisfactorily resolved, could add hundreds of millions of dollars to the project cost.

    For example, with higher, more realistic assumptions for ground acceleration, the upstream face of the dam would be subject to stresses which would almost certainly cause cracking. And while CYJV recognizes that this would occur, it did not conduct the necessary analysis of the dam to identify where cracking could occur and what design modifications are needed.

    Furthermore, CYJV failed to conduct a comprehensive assessment of project operation management to analyze possible failure modes such as rupture of the dam due to fault movement underneath it, and the performance of the dam during an earthquake with prior cracking.

Other examples of how CYJV has systematically downplayed the risk of dam failure are as follows:

  • Underestimation of the risks caused by catastrophic landslides

    In 1963, at the Vaiont Dam in Italy, a landslide in the reservoir generated a flood wave that killed 4000 people. In the Three Gorges region, major landslides occur every few years, disrupting navigation and causing property damage and loss of life. CYJV states that the Three Gorges Project would result in ?no significant change in slope stability,?4 which is highly questionable considering that wide fluctuations in reservoir levels in the Three Gorges region are highly likely to have a destabilizing effect on potential slide areas.

    Although CYJV discusses the risk of landslides in the reservoir, it did not investigate the effect of earthquakes, including those induced by the reservoir itself, on activating landslides in areas it has rated as stable. Nor did it evaluate the impact of landslide waves on spillway gates at the time of rapid drawdown* in the reservoir immediately prior to the flood season.

    Finally, CYJV did not conduct a systematic analysis of zones at risk from waves 20 to 50 metres high that could result from individual landslides and could conceivably kill tens of thousands of people living near the reservoir. Therefore, it appears that the threat to people living around the reservoir and dowstream, and the threat to safe operation of the dam, have been greatly underestimated.

    Apart from other optimistic assumptions, CYJV?s discussion of impacts due to landslide-generated flood waves assumes that all people living in the reservoir area would be relocated above the 182-metre elevation mark, contrary to the resettlement plans stating that only people living below the 162-metre elevation mark would be relocated.

  • Underestimation of risk of spillway failure

    As the world?s largest hydroelectric dam on the world?s third longest river, the Three Gorges Project incorporates many experimental technological innovations. One such experiment is the construction of the world?s largest submerged spillway bays. Each of the 27 spillway units has a capacity equivalent to the average flow of the Missouri River in the United States. CYJV confidently asserts ?there is no reason to believe that these structures could not be successfully designed, constructed and operated,? even though the discharge per unit width is ?well beyond proven world experience.? CYJV?s confidence in the spillways is further undercut in the same paragraph with the statement: ?The feasibility of such a high unit discharge should be reviewed during final design.?5

    In fact, operating experience with extremely large flows through such spillways has not been good. At the Tarbela Dam (Pakistan), and the Glen Canyon and Hoover Dams (U.S.), extremely high velocities and pressures caused cavitation* and erosion which threatened the structural integrity of the dam and necessitated serious and costly repairs. Similarly, at the Three Gorges Dam there would be a high possibility of failure.

    Another questionable assumption is that the ?good and homogeneous quality? of the rock immediately downstream of the dam would minimize scouring (erosion of the channel caused by the river?s flow).6 Actual operating experience with this is very limited, but there is a significant possibility that scouring could threaten the structural integrity of the dam, as nearly occurred at the Tarbela Dam. Once scouring begins it is very difficult to correct and requires continual remedial measures which can add significantly to operating costs.

  • Failure to consider downstream effects of cofferdam failure

    During the construction of the project a series of temporary cofferdams would be constructed across the river in order to divert its flow. The second and third phase cofferdams would, at best, be capable of withstanding a 100-year flood and a 200-year flood, respectively. If larger floods occur, these cofferdams could quickly wash out,* releasing a flood wave that would overwhelm the Gezhouba Dam** and continue downstream to overtop the Jingjiang Dyke, drowning hundreds of thousands of people. CYJV estimates the probability of such a catastrophe to be about 1 in 20, which should be considered an unacceptably high risk.

  • No provision for decommissioning of the dam

    The risk of dam failure increases with its age as construction materials deteriorate, mechanical systems such as spillway outlet gates fail, and the effects of a series of problems, such as corrosion, abrasion, sedimentation, and downstream scouring, become intractable.

    CYJV has calculated the costs and benefits of the project over a 50-year period (for comparison?s sake, Chinese culture has developed alongside the Yangtze River over some 4000 years). Regardless of the dam?s economic lifespan, CYJV should have made provision in the feasibility study for decommissioning the project in a way that would ensure the safety of those living downstream. The costs of decommissioning should have been included in the cost-benefit analsyis.


Sources and Further Commentary

*A cofferdam is a temporary dam built across the river to divert the river?s flow around the dam site while the permanent dam structure is under construction. Plans include construction of three cofferdams during three stages of the Three Gorges Project construction.

*Drawdown refers to the release of water to lower the level of water in the reservoir.

*Cavitation: extremely high velocities cause negative pressure which can break off pieces of the spillway?s concrete surface.

*On a much smaller scale, such a cofferdam failure occurred in 1986 at the Auburn Dam site on the American River (U.S.). The cofferdam was washed out by a flood flow, only one-fifth of the volume that would be released from the Three Gorges cofferdam, but fortunately a disaster was averted by the Folsom reservoir downstream which was able to contain the flood.

**The Gezhouba reservoir capacity is less than one-half of a cubic kilometre (1/2 km3), a mere fraction of the Three Gorges reservoir capacity.

 
Quote    Reply

Herald12345    Yep.   7/2/2009 11:55:13 PM
Just what the doctor ordered as explained in those last two posts. Its called a DETERRENT.

Sun Tzu: The best battle won is the battle NOT FOUGHT.
 
QED, folks. And I didn't even have to sweat for it.
 
243 Raptors to protect and project, and the scramdarts.   
 
Herald.
 
Quote    Reply

DarthAmerica       7/3/2009 12:33:24 AM

Just what the doctor ordered as explained in those last two posts. Its called a DETERRENT.

Sun Tzu: The best battle won is the battle NOT FOUGHT.

QED, folks. And I didn't even have to sweat for it.
243 Raptors to protect and project, and the scramdarts.   
Herald.

Except that United States cannot use this course of action in an PRC vs RoC scenario or any other scenario short of total war where all the rule sets that govern nation state wars exist. It's just simply a course of action we would not pursue. Much like the Mosque we used to wish we going blow up. Sure, could have killed a lot of insurgents but the political and military consequences made it so that even if soldiers fired on Mosque without absolute assurance that it was being used for military purposes and with multiple confirmed PID they go to jail. Bottom line, reality prevents this. It also has no bearing on total numbers of Raptors which is a different issue altogether from this digression.


That is the reality of the matter on this Three Gorges Dam issue. 

 
-DA 


 
Quote    Reply

Herald12345    You have been more of sidelined, amateur.    7/3/2009 12:46:45 AM
Issue closed. The Taiwanese, themselves, intend to put it at RISK.
 
QED. You are done.
 

 
Herald
 
Quote    Reply

DarthAmerica       7/3/2009 12:52:05 AM

Sun Tzu: The best battle won is the battle NOT FOUGHT.

 
Since both the PRC and USA have signed the legal agreement not to attack targets like Three Gorges, its a battle they know they won't have to fight so long as they limit the scope of the conflict. By doing that, they can use Sun Tzu to their advantage:

12. Therefore, in your deliberations, when seeking to determine link ">the military conditions, let them be made the basis of a comparison, in link ">this wise:-- link ">

13. (1) Which of the two sovereigns is imbued with the Moral link ">law? (2) Which of the two generals has most ability? (3) With whom lie link ">the advantages derived from Heaven and Earth? (4) On which side is discipline link ">most rigorously enforced? (5) Which army is stronger? (6) On which side link ">are officers and men more highly trained? (7) In which army is there the link ">greater constancy both in reward and punishment? link ">

14. By means of these seven considerations I can forecast link ">victory or defeat.  


And they also have an insurance policy...

 

...also Japan, Australia, S Korea, Phillippines ect are all signatory to the legal treaty that prevents attacking Three Gorges. That you think Taiwan is going to invite nuclear war on itself is laughable. The only person done here is you AMATUER.


-DA 
 
Quote    Reply

DarthAmerica       7/3/2009 1:04:31 AM

Issue closed. The Taiwanese, themselves, intend to put it at RISK.

THe issue was closed when I closed it by showing you the legalese that will prevent this mass murder. And it's absolutely hilarious that you are trying to connect going after 3 Gorges with needing 243 Raptors and X-51 of which the Taiwanese HAVE ZERO.  
 

QED. You are done.

You are as arrogant as you are naive about subject matter you are completely ignorant of. But that's fine, you really are filling my inbox with the most hilarious email about what a moron you are and its rather enjoyable to what you keep stepping on your own feet. So lets see...first we needed 243 F-22s to crackjing the Dam in order to stop an invasion of Taiwan AFTER Anderson AFB somehow becomes a hole in the ground from weapons the Chinese don't have since you realized after Warpig reminded you that it would take nukes for that. Then after we educated you on the political and legal limits you rambled on about flooding coal mines in order to distract people form you mistake. You read the DoD report that mentioned the possibility of RoC going for the Dam as a result of PRC vs RoC war of words in 2004 so the latest twist in your misunderstanding is that the RoC will do something you claim takes "SCARMDARTS" and 243 Raptors. WHAT A FERKIN JOKE YOU ARE. It's almost like clubbing baby seals to correct your errors.

-DA 

  

 
Quote    Reply

DarthAmerica       7/3/2009 1:24:37 AM
Storm across the Taiwan Strait

By Chris Hogg 
BBC Taiwan correspondent

Seven and a half lines of text, tucked away at the end of an inch-thick Pentagon report on the military capabilities of China's People's Liberation Army, have provoked a stream of vitriol from China's state media.

Three Gorges Dam
The US report suggested the Three Gorges Dam might be targeted

The offending passage says political and military leaders in Taipei have suggested acquiring weapons capable of striking against the Chinese mainland as a cost-effective means of deterrence.

"Proponents of strikes against the mainland apparently hope that merely presenting credible threats to China's urban population, or high-value targets, such as the Three Gorges dam, will deter Chinese military coercion," the report said.

China's state media responded that this was tantamount to terrorism, and condemned the United States for "instigating Taiwan to engage in terrorism to hurt China's core national interests".

TAIWAN STRAIT TENSIONS
Taiwan missile
link background-repeat: no-repeat; background-attachment: initial; background-color: initial; background-position: initial initial; ">China spending heavily to gain military superiority
link background-repeat: no-repeat; background-attachment: initial; background-color: initial; background-position: initial initial; ">US wants its ally Taiwan to spend more
link background-repeat: no-repeat; background-attachment: initial; background-color: initial; background-position: initial initial; ">But US only sells Taiwan defensive weapons
link background-repeat: no-repeat; background-attachment: initial; background-color: initial; background-position: initial initial; ">Taiwan may be talking up its hand

The Bush administration of course sees it differently. But the row has again exposed the difficulties Washington faces in balancing the competing needs of Beijing and Taipei.

First, though, a reality check. How likely is Taiwan to launch a strike against the Three Gorges dam?

The theory, at least, is not new. In October 2002 a paper from the US think tank, the Center for Non-Proliferation Studies, suggested that in order to develop a deterrent, "Taiwan could try to develop the capability to inflict unacceptable losses and damage on China through military targets of its own."

"This would require the ability to destroy military, economic, or symbolic targets such as major population centres, Shanghai's Pudong Tower or even the Three Gorges Dam."

The report went on to suggest, though, that the amount of damage Taiwan's military forces could deliver would be insufficient to deter a missile attack by China.

The alternative - the development of a weapons of mass destruction programme - would jeopardise the US-Taiwan relationship and would be likely to provoke a pre-emptive Chinese attack.

More recently Taiwan's Deputy Defence Minister Tsai Ming Hsian was asked in the territory's legislature whether the Taiwanese military had the ability to attack the Three Gorges Dam. "Yes," he said.

Taiwan's Ministry of Defence however later denied reports that Mr Tsai's boss, the Defence Secretary Li Jie, had also confirmed the island's ability to attack Three Gorges. Officials appeared to rule out such a capability.

Whether that was deliberate obfuscation or a case of the political imperative taking precedence over the military, experts are sceptical the tactic would be used.

The Three Gorges dam lies around 1,500km (932 miles) from Taiwan, while most of Taiwan's military aircraft have a combat radius of between 900 and 1,200km.

Dr Wang Kao-chen, from the Institute of International Affairs and Strategic Studies at Tamking University in Taiwan, told BBC News Online the island's military does not have the ability to carry out such an attack.

"We don't have mid-range missiles," he said. "And our aircraft wouldn't be able to fly far enough to take out the dam."

Timothy Wong Ka Ying from the Hong Kong Institute of Asia-Pacific Studies at the Chinese University of Hong Kong said Taiwan "must have discussed the possibility".

"But it could have been just a theoretical discussion, just as plans to attack Hong Kong and Shanghai in the event of war with the mainland would have been considered," he said.

 

The noted commentator on Taiwan affairs, Lau Yui Siu, believes the island's military would not dare to launch the attack because they do not have a back-up plan.

"Taiwan's attack would provide Beijing with an excuse to respond with overwhelming force. Beijing has the military ability to crush Taiwan easily. In any case, the Three Gorges Dam has been designed to resist such an attack," he said.

 

Mr Lau believes claims by Taiwanese politicians that Taiwan has the ability to attack the dam are more likely directed at a domestic audience, to reassure people worried about the missile build-up on China's eastern coast.

So if such an attack is, for the moment at least, unlikely, why has Beijing become so exercised about it?

A delegation of Taiwanese lawmakers is currently touring military facilities in the US and holding meetings with Pentagon officials to discuss an $18bn arms deal for the island.

At the same time as it condemned the "terrorist" potential of Taiwan, Beijing's Taiwan Affairs Office made clear it opposed "the United States having any official exchanges or military co-operation with Taiwan".

So it makes sense for Beijing to try to characterise Taiwan's military strategy as offensive rather than defensive.

Another possibility is that attempting to brand President Chen Shui-bian's administration as having "terrorist" ambitions is simply another step in Beijing's continuing campaign to blacken the name of a man they suspect harbours a desire to create an independent Taiwan.

Washington caught in the middle

What it also shows is the difficulty Washington faces.

Publicly, it accepts China's so-called "One China" policy and refuses to challenge with any great degree of seriousness Beijing's opposition to Taipei taking part in any inter-governmental body which would convey upon it the trappings of statehood.

Yet at the same time, Washington provides Taiwan with the military support needed to defend itself.

The reality, of course, is that the rhetoric of China's leaders has made clear to their people that anything short of re-unification is unacceptable.

Which is why the potential for a military confrontation across the Taiwan Straits is so significant, and causes Washington such a headache. 

 
Quote    Reply

DarthAmerica    RoCAF...Whats Missing?   7/3/2009 1:34:12 AM

Aircraft Inventory

AircraftOriginTypeVersionsIn service[2][9]Notes
Fighter Aircraft
Lockheed F-16 Fighting Falcon  United States Multirole Fighter F-16 A/B Block 20 144
Dassault Mirage 2000-5  France Multirole Fighter Mirage 2000-5EI/DI 56
AIDC F-CK-1 Ching-kuo  Taiwan Multirole fighter F-CK-1A/B 127
Northrop F-5E/F Tiger II  United States Fighter F-5E/F 60+ Built under licence by AIDC
Early Warning Aircraft
Grumman E-2 Hawkeye  United States Airborne Early Warning E-2T
E-2K
4
2
K variant upgrading to Hawkeye 2000
Trainer Aircraft
AIDC AT-3 Tzu Chung  Taiwan Trainer AT-3A/B 36/17
Beechcraft T-34 Mentor  United States Trainer US-1A 41
Transport Aircraft
Lockheed C-130 Hercules  United States Tactical Transport
ELINT
C-130H
C-130HE
19
1


Modified in Taiwan[10]
Beechcraft 1900C  United States VIP Transport B-1900C 11
Fokker F50  Netherlands VIP Transport F50 3
Boeing 737  United States VIP Transport B737-800 1 Air Force One
Helicopters
Sikorsky S-70C Blue Hawk  United States Search and Rescue S-70C-1/1A/6 15

link ">

[edit]Missile inventory

MissileOriginTypeVersionsIn serviceNotes
Air-to-air missiles
AIM-120 AMRAAM  United States Medium-range AIM-120C-5
AIM-120C-7
120
218


Ordered
AIM-7 Sparrow  United States Medium-range 600
MBDA MICA  France Medium-range 960
Sky Sword II  Taiwan Medium-range 250
AIM-9 Sidewinder  United States Short-range Various 1082+
R550 Magic  France Short-range 480
Sky Sword I  Taiwan Short-range 300
Air-to-ground missiles
AGM-65 Maverick  United States Air-to-ground AGM-65B
AGM-65G
AGM-65G2
500
40
234




Ordered
Anti-ship missiles
AGM-84 Harpoon  United States Anti-ship AGM-84L 110 60 + 50 upgrade kits ordered



...And the ANSWER IS...

 



Not only that but the Taiwanese don't have the strategic depth to endure the response or the nuclear weapons capability to deter it. 


-DA 
 
Quote    Reply

DarthAmerica    Damning the Dam...   7/3/2009 1:37:27 AM

Three Gorges Dam strong enough for terrorist attacks
(Xinhua)
Updated: 2006-05-18 10:26

The Three Gorges Dam is strong enough to resist terrorist attacks, Cao Guangjing, deputy general manager of China Yangtze River Three Gorges Project Development Corporation, said Wednesday.


A female worker walks near the Three Gorges Dam under construction near Yichang, along the Yangtze river in central China, Wednesday, May 17, 2006. [AP]
Cao told a news conference that China has enough manpower and equipment to guard the important parts, such as the dam, power plant and lock of the Three Gorges Project.

He said that China took into consideration how to deal with military attacks when the project was first designed. In November last year, China staged an anti-terror drill at the construction site and instituted emergency plans for terrorist attacks by regular weapons or nuclear weapons.

According to the corporation's latest schedule, the construction of the dam structure will be finished on May 20, ten months ahead of schedule, Cao said.

"The construction of the Three Gorges Project is beneficial to the economic growth of China and we cannot reject development for fears of terrorism," he said.

Launched in 1993, the Three Gorges Project, including a 2,309-meter-long, 185-meter-high dam with 26 power generators, is being built in three phases on the middle reaches of the Yangtze, China's longest river.

The gigantic project is expected to generate 84.7 billion kwh of electricity annually when it is finally completed.

Besides its huge power generating capacity, the project is expected to tame flooding on the Yangtze, fuel industrial growth in the area and improve shipping.

The entire project will be completed by 2008, a year ahead of schedule, Cao said.

 
Quote    Reply

DarthAmerica    If they Drown, Look Who They will Burn...   7/3/2009 1:41:13 AM
 
Quote    Reply

Herald12345    My the desperation just grows doesn't it?   7/3/2009 2:24:44 AM
All of your arguments are based on hope and paper aren't they? What happems when the SHOOYING starts?
 
Your house of cards collapses. CREF treaties against assassination and violation of national frontiers to stage air attacks.
 
If we do0n't respect TREATY framework now, what makes you think we'll respect such  treaties in WAR?

Like I said elsewhere this becomes  an ego defense for you once you lose on the physics and strategy and now yoi frabkly grasp at foolish and OUTDATED straws.
 
Easy to see at this point.
 
 
As for your pretty map, RUSSIA. Even the PRC bandits are not that INSANE, though apparently you are. Just how does a spasm attack on Russia or a US toer one ally serve the Chinese people in the negotiation and conflict resolution phase? 
 
This is what I mean by your complete lack of strategic vision or COMMON SENSE. You don't know this part of warfare at all.
 
Herald



 
 
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Herald12345    My the desperation just grows doesn't it?   7/3/2009 2:28:16 AM

All of your arguments are based on hope and paper aren't they? What happems when the SHOOYING starts?

Your house of cards collapses. CREF treaties against assassination and violation of national frontiers to stage air attacks.

If we don't respect TREATY framework now, what makes you think we'll respect such  treaties in WAR?

Like I said elsewhere this becomes  an ego defense for you once you lose on the physics and strategy and now yoi frankly grasp at foolish and OUTDATED straws.

Easy to see at this point.


As for your pretty map, RUSSIA. Even the PRC bandits are not that INSANE, though apparently you are. Just how does a spasm attack on Russia or a US tier one ally serve the Chinese people in the negotiation and conflict resolution phase? 

This is what I mean by your complete lack of strategic vision or COMMON SENSE. You don't know this part of warfare at all.

Herald


PS. Terrorist attack is not a 9 billion impact event. Leave the PHYSICS to me, AMATEUR. 

 
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Herald12345    My the desperation just grows doesn't it?   7/3/2009 2:29:47 AM
Should read 9 billion JOULE impact event.
 
Yawn, you BORE me. 
 
Herald
 
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