The Strategypage is a comprehensive summary of military news and affairs.
 News As History - November 25, 2009




New Strategy - Wargames at Discount Prices
1.Modern Air Power: War Over the Middle East
2.Commander: Napoleon at War
3.Close Combat: Watch am Rhein
4.Gallic Wars
5.Fast Action Battle: The Bulge

100+ Computer and Board games all with free shipping.
 
 
 
Military History | How To Make War | Wars Around the World Rules of Use
How to Behave on an Internet Forum
Fighters, Bombers and Recon Discussion Board
Sign In   Return to Topic Page
Subject: F-22 supremacy ? Well ...
Bluewings12    6/24/2009 7:28:43 PM
""international AIR POWER REVIEW" - year 2006, issue 20, page 45. - ISNB: 1-880588-91-9 (casebound) or ISBN: 1473-9917.

"more recently, there have been repeated reports that two RAF Typhoons deployed to the USA for OEU trails work have been flying against the F-22 at NAS China Lake, and have peformed better than was expected. There was little suprise that Typhoon, with its world-class agility and high off-boresight missile capability was able to dominate "Within Visual Range" flight, but the aircraft did cause a suprise by getting a radar lock on the F22 at a suprisingly long range. The F-22s cried off, claiming that they were "unstealthed" anyway, although the next day´s scheduled two vs. two BWR engagement was canceled, and "the USAF decided they didn´t want to play any more .""

I dare say that I am not surprised it if is true .

Cheers .
 
Quote    Reply

Email Me When A New Comment Is Made
Show Only Poster Name and Title     Sort in Reverse Order Posted
Pages: PREV  1 2 3 4   NEXT
Bluewings12       6/30/2009 7:10:39 PM
Warpig :
""GF, to be fair to BW, he is typing "Air Power" as a shorthand for "International Air Power Review," not "Air Power Australia."  It doesn't make this anecdote any greater proof of anything, but at least it might actually be more credible than if it were from APA.  ;-)""
 
Oh , I understand gf 's reaction now . Thanks for clearing things up Warpig :-)
I am not familiar at all with "APA" , sorry .
 
Warpig , I 'm not saying that the F-22 is a crap bird (how could I ?) so keep it in mind for later .
What I deny is the complete supremacy of the F-22 . Stealth is a compromise . Its downside is a lack of excellent aerodynamism , to make an aircraft stealthy you modify the whole shape to reduce detection then you try to make the thing fly the best you can . Unfortunatly , the mecanic of the fluids don 't give a monkey about radar deflective shapes .
I often read that because the F-22 has TVC , it must be an awesome dogfighter , wrong ! It has TVC to be able to turn in a decent manner , without it , its instantaneous turn rate would be less than average .
You can 't have everything and it is why Stealth is indeed a compromise .
 
It doesn 't come as a surprise that a powerfull delta-canard fighter beat the F-22 in dogfight , it was expected .
Now , regarding the long range detection , it depends on the aspect of the target (as usual) . Since we don 't know at what range the Captor did light up the Raptor , there is not much more we can say .
 
Cheers .
 
Quote    Reply

Herald12345    WP reply.   6/30/2009 7:15:49 PM




Herald , we all know this article from 2005 . At this time , maybe the US Officials were simply lying or at least hiding information from the media .





Then , in 2006 Air Power published the article I posted , then in 2007 the same Air Power published another article (I also posted it) giving again more informations .






Since we can 't find on the Net any denial from the USAF or LockMart regarding the Air Power papers , we have to believe that the guys are correct .



Since , the story has been discussed on many forums .







GF, to be fair to BW, he is typing "Air Power" as a shorthand for "International Air Power Review," not "Air Power Australia."  It doesn't make this anecdote any greater proof of anything, but at least it might actually be more credible than if it were from APA.  ;-)

 

BW, once again, all that this one anecdote (that apparently has been retreaded/repackaged once or twice) serves to illustrate is precisely just how awesome the F-22 actually IS!  The Europeans have to dig and whine, and all they can manage to "uncover" is one possible occurrence with vague and disputed details that prove essentially nothing other than what every professional already knows:  if this story is true it merely shows that of course nothing is undetectable nor invulnerable at all times.  But at what cost to the Eurotrash-talkers' case?  They can't do any better than this, such that they are even reduced to rehashing the same alleged incident over again in order to have something to talk about!  Even then, the details are so vague that it doesn't even proove that the hype about the F-22 is wrong in the least.  "Surprisingly long range..."  Big-frickity-whoop.  The truly reasonable conclusion to draw from the incredible scrutiny the F-22 has received for over a decade is that if this is the best the nay-sayers can do, then the F-22 must totally rule.

 

IAPR and Air Power are DISTINCTLY different in title form and BW knows it, or he should. And as you are aware by now, WP, IAPR has been running a series of articles for the past year, filled with misinformation and error, by one Bill Sweetman;  about the F-35 Sparkie as well as some articles by Soey, and Riccioni and foolish news reports in the past four years, concerning the Raptor, including that wrong OEU report, that that ruben cited. What makes the IAPR any better than Air Power  Australia, then? (SARCASM) Not much. Aviation Week is CREDIBLE. 

Herald
 
 
Quote    Reply

Herald12345    WP reply.   6/30/2009 7:18:23 PM




Herald , we all know this article from 2005 . At this time , maybe the US Officials were simply lying or at least hiding information from the media .





Then , in 2006 Air Power published the article I posted , then in 2007 the same Air Power published another article (I also posted it) giving again more informations .






Since we can 't find on the Net any denial from the USAF or LockMart regarding the Air Power papers , we have to believe that the guys are correct .



Since , the story has been discussed on many forums .







GF, to be fair to BW, he is typing "Air Power" as a shorthand for "International Air Power Review," not "Air Power Australia."  It doesn't make this anecdote any greater proof of anything, but at least it might actually be more credible than if it were from APA.  ;-)

 

BW, once again, all that this one anecdote (that apparently has been retreaded/repackaged once or twice) serves to illustrate is precisely just how awesome the F-22 actually IS!  The Europeans have to dig and whine, and all they can manage to "uncover" is one possible occurrence with vague and disputed details that prove essentially nothing other than what every professional already knows:  if this story is true it merely shows that of course nothing is undetectable nor invulnerable at all times.  But at what cost to the Eurotrash-talkers' case?  They can't do any better than this, such that they are even reduced to rehashing the same alleged incident over again in order to have something to talk about!  Even then, the details are so vague that it doesn't even proove that the hype about the F-22 is wrong in the least.  "Surprisingly long range..."  Big-frickity-whoop.  The truly reasonable conclusion to draw from the incredible scrutiny the F-22 has received for over a decade is that if this is the best the nay-sayers can do, then the F-22 must totally rule.

 

IAPR and Air Power are DISTINCTLY different in title form and BW knows it, or he should. And as you are aware by now, WP, IAPR has been running a series of articles for the past year, filled with misinformation and error, by one Bill Sweetman;  about the F-35 Sparkie as well as some articles by Spey, and Riccioni and foolish news reports in the past four years, concerning the Raptor, including that wrong OEU report, that that ruben cited. What makes the IAPR any better than Air Power  Australia, then? (SARCASM) Not much. Aviation Week is CREDIBLE. 

Herald
 
 
Quote    Reply

Le Zookeeper    please if the F-22   7/8/2009 12:39:16 AM
used TVC at full blast its tail would fall off, plus I am not surprised that by now somebody could find a way to track it considering a Serb radar officer trapped a F117 a while ago. Bluewings do not listen to these ignorants. Besides I worked in Stealth polymers a while ago, its no big secret.
 
Quote    Reply

warpig       7/8/2009 2:35:27 AM
Herc, you're an troll, and you don't even try to look like you might know what you're talking about.
 
 
Quote    Reply

Le Zookeeper    Warpig   7/8/2009 2:51:20 AM

Herc, you're an troll, and you don't even try to look like you might know what you're talking about.

 



Bleaaah!!! I do not try to fib I DID WORK IN POLYMERS FOR CONDUCTIVE PLASTICS and if u do not know what that is well I will not even debate u. But its a company called Rockwell a longtime ago digging carbon from some unknown mines. I do not like to brag, but I think I got my hands dirty in stealthy polymers before mankind met one, its actually close to Las Crucas close to my ex-home.
 
Quote    Reply

warpig       7/8/2009 3:04:20 AM
I wasn't referring to your past experience with polymers per se.  I was referring to your comments regarding LO, the one F-117 shoot-down, and your outrageously simplistic reduction of LO to some compositions of plastics.  It would be difficult for you to be more wrong in all of that.
 
 
 
Quote    Reply

Le Zookeeper    Warpig I do not understand?   7/8/2009 3:13:15 AM

I wasn't referring to your past experience with polymers per se.  I was referring to your comments regarding LO, the one F-117 shoot-down, and your outrageously simplistic reduction of LO to some compositions of plastics.  It would be difficult for you to be more wrong in all of that.

 

 



Its not plastics, its silver, epoxies, carbons and somethings that I need to catch up on. Its not that I would head against an F-22 with an Eurofighter oops thats still a 1 in 100 chance. You got to give Bluewings some support. Thats all , I like BW and if u make him upset I can give Dussault a formula for a Stealthy skin. Its not much else.
 
Quote    Reply

Herald12345    Forget it WP.   7/8/2009 3:19:19 AM
We may butt heads, about this one we agree.
 
He's ignorant.
 
Herald 
 
.
 
 
 
Quote    Reply

Le Zookeeper    Herald its like 3:29 EST Marion Berry must have a shrink for u!!   7/8/2009 3:29:30 AM

We may butt heads, about this one we agree.

 

He's ignorant.

 

Herald 


 

.

 

 
 
Quote    Reply

Bluewings12       7/8/2009 8:55:22 PM
Le Zookeeper :
""I like BW and if u make him upset I can give Dussault a formula for a Stealthy skin""
 
Thanks but Dassault already has a very good RAM paint .
 
Cheers .
 
Quote    Reply

gf0012-aust       7/8/2009 9:11:52 PM
Oh FFS, why the hell do we have to put up with this inane chatter about LO when its patently obvious that he's go no bloody idea.

and for gods sake, its not "paint"  and it accounts for usually less than 20% of  an entire platforms signature management.

this is becoming ridiculous 
 
 
Quote    Reply

Bluewings12       7/8/2009 9:25:00 PM
Who are you talking to gf ?
 
Cheers .
 
Quote    Reply

DarthAmerica       7/8/2009 9:38:11 PM

Who are you talking to gf ?

 

Cheers .



YOU
 
Quote    Reply

duplex       7/9/2009 3:08:25 AM
Rumor  has it that  Block +52  fighters of  HAF beat  the shiit out of  Rafales in a recent flight tests.
I am not surprised if  this is true..
 
Quote    Reply
Pages: PREV  1 2 3 4   NEXT



StrategyWorld.com© 1998 - 2009StrategyWorld.com. All rights Reserved. StrategyWorld.com, StrategyPage.com, FYEO, For Your Eyes Only and Al Nofi's CIC are all trademarks of StrategyWorld.com Privacy Policy