Military History | How To Make War | Wars Around the World Rules of Use How to Behave on an Internet Forum
Fighters, Bombers and Recon Discussion Board
   Return to Topic Page
Subject: 2009 displays of the F-22 and the Rafale
Bluewings12    6/24/2009 5:03:48 PM
Let 's watch them first :-) The F-22 h*tp://www.air-attack.com/videos/single/cAhL7lJCk4I The Rafale : h*tp://www.dailymotion.com/user/ministeredeladefense/video/x9ma8h_demonstration-du-rafale_news Both aircrafts are pulling nice stuff . Rafale only does it twice faster . Explaination and details to follow . Cheers .
 
Quote    Reply

Show Only Poster Name and Title     Newest to Oldest
sinoflex    Arty Rules!   7/21/2009 8:18:56 PM
What I offered was a mere appetizer whereas you offered a 3 course meal. Your last bit about constraining image dimensions was an especially important point.  Good work!  
 
Talk about stealing my thunder ;)  Oh well!!!!!

 
Quote    Reply

Bluewings12       7/21/2009 8:56:01 PM
The two "holes" are air intakes taking parts in the cooling engine process .
 
The purpose is threefold : cooling the engines , hiding the engines IR signature with a constant flow of cold air circulating in between the engines and the airframe and diluting the hot gases in the exhausts .
 
It makes sense if you want to build a fighter capable to fly fast and low . The IR signature management must be low when the fighter has to evade portable IR SAMs . If the fighter 's belly is "cold" , it helps .
Another nice trick from Dassault .
 
Cheers .
 
Quote    Reply

sinoflex       7/21/2009 9:54:51 PM
http://img190.imageshack.us/img190/9778/29536684.jpg" height="210" width="303" />
 
Quote    Reply

Herald12345    Nice.   7/21/2009 10:04:05 PM

http://img190.imageshack.us/img190/9778/29536684.jpg" width="303" height="210" />
http://www.strategypage.com/CuteSoft_Client/CuteEditor/Images/emwink.gif" align="absmiddle" border="0" alt="" />
 
Quote    Reply

gf0012-aust    Rafale ducts   7/21/2009 10:36:55 PM
a question for the aviation engineers....

Why aren't the ducts NACA shaped?? There seems to be no visible means (front or on profile) for the air to be herded into the
chamber 

If no NACA ducts why no shock ramp to facilitate the same?

If the air is just getting boxed and channeled then it's entry point would seem to not provide any opportunity for it to be compressed, swirled and hence cool down effectively whatever its supposed to be doing.

Seems relevant to me as its pretty obvious that there is a bit of a hot spot where the air converges....  The photos are a bit of a giveaway... 
 
Quote    Reply

sinoflex    Dorsal or Ventral View?   7/22/2009 12:38:27 AM
Out of curiosity, does this look like a view of the underside or the topside of the aircraft?
 
 
 
Quote    Reply

gf0012-aust       7/22/2009 1:46:58 AM
ventral
 
Quote    Reply

Herald12345    Agreed.   7/22/2009 2:09:04 AM
The size and location of the vents as FOD foils may be why the Dassault engineers were not able to properly duct them. 
 
Herald
 
Quote    Reply

StevoJH       7/22/2009 3:13:50 AM
Bluewings,
 
Why don't you just agree that the Rafale, Typhoon and Super Hornet are all fairly closely matched in capabilities and will become even more closely matched once Typhoon and Rafale receive AESA radar's.
 
The problem i see with Rafale (and with F22 actually) is that with the low numbers produced (and the low production rate in the case of Rafale [20 years for 300 or so airframes]) will lead to less money being available for upgrades to the fleet then there is for the Eurofighter, Super Hornet and F35 which have been ordered in much larger numbers, resulting in money from more sources being available to pay for upgrades to the airframes.
 
How will Typhoon and Rafale compare in 15 years? We don't know, but i'm guessing that typhoon will be better since with big orders from the UK, Germany and Saudi Arabia, more money should be available for upgrades.
 
Have a fun debate guys.
 
Stephen
 
Quote    Reply

Bluewings12       7/22/2009 2:11:28 PM
Sino :
""Out of curiosity, does this look like a view of the underside or the topside of the aircraft?""
gf :
""ventral""
 
Wrong . This known picture shows the topside of an early Rafale F1 . The hot spot was in fact the air vent from the MPDU cooling system situated aft left behind the cockpit frame ... Since , Dassault moved it .
 
Stevo :
""Why don't you just agree that the Rafale, Typhoon and Super Hornet are all fairly closely matched in capabilities and will become even more closely matched once Typhoon and Rafale receive AESA radar's.""
 
I agree with that , no problem . They are indeed of very high quality , but it also depends on the mission . Typhoon and Rafale are better tailored for A2A than the SH , but the SH and the Rafale are better tailored for A2G than the Typhoon (as it stands) . Out of the three , I go for the French Fighter .
 
""The problem i see with Rafale (and with F22 actually) is that with the low numbers produced (and the low production rate in the case of Rafale [20 years for 300 or so airframes]) will lead to less money being available for upgrades to the fleet then there is for the Eurofighter, Super Hornet and F35 which have been ordered in much larger numbers, resulting in money from more sources being available to pay for upgrades to the airframes.
How will Typhoon and Rafale compare in 15 years? We don't know, but i'm guessing that typhoon will be better since with big orders from the UK, Germany and Saudi Arabia, more money should be available for upgrades.""
 
This is possible , time will tell . On the other hand , Dassault and its Partners have always been upgrading the FAF and MN aircrafts (as well as the export versions) . The M2000 and the Super-Etendard are living exemples . In beween the M2000-C , the -5F anf the -9MkII , there is one and a half generation .
 
Cheers .
 
Quote    Reply



 Latest
 News 		  Most
 Read 		  Most
 Commented		  Hot
 Topics