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Subject: 2009 displays of the F-22 and the Rafale
Bluewings12    6/24/2009 5:03:48 PM
Let 's watch them first :-)

The F-22
h*tp://www.air-attack.com/videos/single/cAhL7lJCk4I

The Rafale :
h*tp://www.dailymotion.com/user/ministeredeladefense/video/x9ma8h_demonstration-du-rafale_news

Both aircrafts are pulling nice stuff . Rafale only does it twice faster . Explaination and details to follow .

Cheers .
 
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usajoe1       7/29/2009 6:46:56 PM
 see that Joe is back again with his usual BS . The BS I have responded to many times but the man is coming for more .
Great !
You 're ready Joe ? You 'll better be ;-)
 
I never went anywhere liar!
 
""1) How come all of the Rafales competitors have more powerful Radars today. SH, Typhoon, SU-30/35/ F-15E?""
 
First , power is not everything = Rafale 's actual PESA RBE2 sees first the SH , Typhoon and F-15E/K .
 
Lie! show me a official document that proves this, and no, a Dassault documnet is not credible on this issue because of the reasons that Rufus and me posted eariler.

"The combat-proven F/A-18E/F Super Hornet delivers cutting-edge next generation multi-role strike fighter capability that is available today, outdistancing current and emerging threats well into the future. The Super Hornet has the capability, flexibility and performance necessary to modernize the air or naval aviation forces of any country."
h*tp://www.boeing.com/defense-space/military/fa18ef/docs/EF_overview.pdf
 
"Gripen IN is the most technologically advanced fighter aircraft in the world. Gripen IN is equipped with futuristic warfare technologies developed specifically for India and will be the first of the new generation, multi-role combat aircraft to enter service."
http://www.gripen.com/en/GripenFighter/The+Future+is+Gripen+NG/Gripen_NG_for_India.htm
" target="_blank">link " target="_blank" link
http://www.gripen.com/en/GripenFighter/The+Future+is+Gripen+NG/Gripen_NG_for_India.htm
" target="_blank">link " target="_blank"  
http://www.gripen.com/en/GripenFighter/The+Future+is+Gripen+NG/Gripen_NG_for_India.htm
" target="_blank">link " target="_blank" When I visit the Typhoon web site it says; "Nothing Comes Close", so I should believe that the Typhoon is the best right.
http://www.gripen.com/en/GripenFighter/The+Future+is+Gripen+NG/Gripen_NG_for_India.htm
" target="_blank">link " target="_blank"

The SU-30 is still an unknown quantity because the Indians at the latest RedFlag did not use the radar to its best and the Rafales did not get much from it . The SU-35 is also an unkown quantity .
http://www.gripen.com/en/GripenFighter/The+Future+is+Gripen+NG/Gripen_NG_for_India.htm
" target="_blank">link " target="_blank"  
http://www.gripen.com/en/GripenFighter/The+Future+is+Gripen+NG/Gripen_NG_for_India.htm
" target="_blank">link " target="_blank" Lie! Do you know about the capabilities of the N011M Bars and Zhuk radars they are both much more powerful than the RBE2.
http://www.gripen.com/en/GripenFighter/The+Future+is+Gripen+NG/Gripen_NG_for_India.htm
" target="_blank">link " target="_blank"  
http://www.gripen.com/en/GripenFighter/The+Future+is+Gripen+NG/Gripen_NG_for_India.htm
" target="_blank">link " target="_blank" What matters Joe , is RCS .
You seem to think that "Power" = better detection . Well , not really you see . I explained few post earlier what the equation Radar vs. RCS was and if you want me to explain to you some more , I will do with pleasure .

I know that radar power alone those not = better detection. I know that the Rafale has a better RCS than the Sukhoi and the Eagle, but this is not what I was talking about liar, I just pointed out the fact that the SH, Sukhoi, Eagle and the Typhoon all have more powerful radars!

Now to respond to your question (the way you want me to) , I will only say that the PESA RBE2 is good enough for what the Rafales are doing right now .
 
LOL! Yah ok kid!
 
""2) How is it that the Rafale is the only fighter from that group that those not have a operational HMS, which gives the others a advantage in WVR combat?""
 
Because the AdA and MN only have that much money . As it stands , we don 't need it .
 
LOL! Yah you don't need it and every coustomer of a 4.5 gen. fighter wants it. That explains one of the many reasons the Rafale is a dud, when it comes to the export market!
 
""3) How is it that the Rafale still does not have a Targeting Pod?""
 
For the same reasons . (We 'll have it in few months and the AASM is perfect , thank you)
 
And for the same reason the Rafale is behind its competition!
 
""4) Why do the SH, Sukhoi, Typhoon and the Eagle, all have more powerful engines?""
 
Because (Typhoon put aside) they need to . Without it , they would be brics to fly . Both Rafale and Typhoon have better flight characteristics in every regime than the others .
 
No, it's because those three countries have always been ahead of France in fighter jet engine tech. liar!
 
""5) How come all of the fighters above have been successful in the export market, and hundreds of them have been produced, while the Rafale has no exports and there is about one Rafale a month being produced?""
 
Because the Rafale is expensive and the USA and Russia are selling less capable platforms for a big bag of peanuts .
 
Less capable fighters with AESA radar (SH), HMS, Targeting Pods, more powerful engines, better A2A missiles. Better SOW, (SH) with JDAMS, SLAM-ER, JSOW, larger airframes with a larger wing loading, and more room to grow, SH and Sukhoi. Yah ok liar, try again!
 
""6) Can you tell me why the Rafale cost more than all of the fighters in its class?""
 
Wrong . Typhoon is more expensive and less capable . To respond to your question in the way you want me to , because the Rafale is better than the rest so it cost more .
 
Less capabale, LOL! ok kid. I know I should not even ask, but what the heck, HOW!
 
""7) Can you tell me why France is behind bankrupt Russia in the fighter business? Russia is about to roll out the new Sukhoi 5th gen fighter, and the best France can do is a souped-up 4th gen. fighter like the Rafale?""
 
France is not behind Russia TODAY and for the incoming 10 years , you are mistaking . The Best SU-XX in service now is not even in the Russian AF and has plenty of Western avionics , including some from the French ;-)
 
In ten years Russia is most likely going to have the PAK-FA 5th gen fighter in active service, and France is going to still have a 4.5 gen. fighter called the Rafale liar!
 
 
 
 
Rufus :
""OUCH!""
 
Indeed ;-)
 
Yes indeed LIAR!
 
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usajoe1    I don't know why this part of the post got jacked up, but here it is   7/29/2009 6:54:37 PM
The SU-30 is still an unknown quantity because the Indians at the latest RedFlag did not use the radar to its best and the Rafales did not get much from it . The SU-35 is also an unkown quantity .
http://www.gripen.com/en/GripenFighter/The+Future+is+Gripen+NG/Gripen_NG_for_India.htm
" target="_blank">link " target="_blank"  
http://www.gripen.com/en/GripenFighter/The+Future+is+Gripen+NG/Gripen_NG_for_India.htm
" target="_blank">link " target="_blank" Lie! Do you know about the capabilities of the N011M Bars and Zhuk radars they are both much more powerful than the RBE2.
http://www.gripen.com/en/GripenFighter/The+Future+is+Gripen+NG/Gripen_NG_for_India.htm
" target="_blank">link " target="_blank"  
http://www.gripen.com/en/GripenFighter/The+Future+is+Gripen+NG/Gripen_NG_for_India.htm
" target="_blank">link " target="_blank" What matters Joe , is RCS .
You seem to think that "Power" = better detection . Well , not really you see . I explained few post earlier what the equation Radar vs. RCS was and if you want me to explain to you some more , I will do with pleasure .

I know that radar power alone those not = better detection. I know that the Rafale has a better RCS than the Sukhoi and the Eagle, but this is not what I was talking about liar, I just pointed out the fact that the SH, Sukhoi, Eagle and the Typhoon all have more powerful radars!
 
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usajoe1    forget it   7/29/2009 6:57:23 PM

 
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usajoe1    forget it   7/29/2009 7:00:59 PM
 it hasn 't been built to be discrete .
Is that another word for France can't build a true stealth fighter like this
 
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Bluewings12       7/29/2009 7:04:11 PM
Joe , there is nothing correct in your last post (garbage) .
To respond in kind would take the time I haven 't to give you , sorry . I only respond to people who have a reasonable knowledge or do not show any stupidly put bias .
 
Cheers .
 
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usajoe1    Or even the best European fighter   7/29/2009 7:06:30 PM
here is the best in Europe
 
 
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Bluewings12       7/29/2009 7:08:06 PM
Joe :
""Is that another word for France can't build a true stealth fighter like this""
 
I am sure we could if we had the money and our RAM coating wouldn 't fall into pieces like yours do .
Our doesn 't .
 
Cheers .
 
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usajoe1    Give up Liar!   7/29/2009 7:09:05 PM
Joe , there is nothing correct in your last post (garbage) .
To respond in kind would take the time I haven 't to give you , sorry . I only respond to people who have a reasonable knowledge or do not show any stupidly put bias .
 
That is what I thought LIAR! now go play with people in your own league kid!
 
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usajoe1    LOL!   7/29/2009 7:11:29 PM
 
Joe :
""Is that another word for France can't build a true stealth fighter like this""
 
I am sure we could if we had the money and our RAM coating wouldn 't fall into pieces like yours do .
Our doesn 't .
 
I'm sure too when they do then come talk  to me kid!
 
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Bluewings12       7/29/2009 7:14:32 PM
Joe , with that load the Typhoons will not go very far , lol ! This is a brochure picture and not a War load .
 
This will go very far with a better load and far more discretely than the Typhoon :
 

 
Cheers .
 
 
 
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usajoe1    grow up kid!   7/29/2009 7:24:12 PM

First of all, I pointed out why the Rafale is behind its competitors in some very important areas like Radar, HMS, Targeting Pod, A2A and SO wepons and is a smaller fighter with less room to grow than the Sukhoi and SH and why the Rafale still has no export sells and you totally dismissed my post and tried to change the subject. Classic BW, how about you go back and try to answer those facts I posted earlier liar!

 
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Bluewings12       7/29/2009 7:27:17 PM
You did not point out one thing right , you are not even an amateur .
Bye Joe .
 
Cheers .
 
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usajoe1    Hey Liar   7/29/2009 7:33:06 PM
Your to easy! next time don't play with the big boys kid!
 
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Bluewings12       7/29/2009 7:55:21 PM
(leaving Joe behind)
What I posted regarding the RCS differences in between the F-16 and the Rafale could also (for the most part) being compared to the SH .
The USN Fighter-Striker in its later version is the best aircraft of its class the USA have . To me , it is better than the F-15E or K .
It is a better deep strike fighter than the strike Eagle with a better FBW and Aerodynamics at low altitude . Then , its RCS is way lower than the Eagle 's . It can also land on a Carrier and its maintenance per hour is better .
A US Navy Squadron Leader even said that he wouldn 't swap his SH for a Rafale !  He is wrong but it shows how good the SH is . No Rafale Pilots would swap his Rafale for a SH , but rightly ;-)
 
Since I do like beautiful pictures , look at this one from a USN/MN joint excercise :
 

 
What you eyes are telling you ? 
Remember what I 've said about the F-16 shortcomings in RCS ...
Then , look at those pylons .
 
Cheers .
 
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usajoe1       7/29/2009 8:05:16 PM
(leaving Joe behind)
 
You left nobody behind LIAR! stop posting dumb pictures and stop running away and changing the subject kid!
 
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