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Subject: 2009 displays of the F-22 and the Rafale
Bluewings12    6/24/2009 5:03:48 PM
Let 's watch them first :-)

The F-22
h*tp://www.air-attack.com/videos/single/cAhL7lJCk4I

The Rafale :
h*tp://www.dailymotion.com/user/ministeredeladefense/video/x9ma8h_demonstration-du-rafale_news

Both aircrafts are pulling nice stuff . Rafale only does it twice faster . Explaination and details to follow .

Cheers .
 
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Herald12345    ROTFLMAO, I finally made a mistake!   7/22/2009 2:43:55 PM
 
Typhoon.
 
 
 
Rafale
 
 
The joker, BW, is finally right about one thing. That is a topside view. I had to blow it way up to see the vertical stabilizer and canopy. There is a claim floating around the internet (research here: Claim) that the idiots at Dassault moved the exhaust port after the IRST test footage of the two jets.
 
Herald
 
 
 
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Bluewings12       7/22/2009 3:22:17 PM
I was looking for the paper but Herald was quicker :
 
""The picture of the Rafale could be either that of a Rafale M flown by Hives Herherve at Farnborough or the C01 previous to 1995 anyway.
This particular year, i have personaly spoken by telephone to Dassault-Aviation Rafale programe manager on the subject after emailing the photo to them, i was also involved with a non-selected Flight simulation for them.
The source of the IR spike is the the exhaust of the avionic bay vent situated behind the cockpit.
The reply of the Rafale programe manager was that this picture was taken before ALL IR sources had been TREATED.
You wont find this sort of IR spike on the serie Rafale today.
The ony noticeable difference between the two is that Rafale picture is taken from ABOVE weither that of Typhoon from under.
One could argue that Typhoon visit panels are thiner under than the skin on the top fuselage, but this is unlikely.
The reason for Typhoon higher IR signature are well documented, and NOT as some cartoon characters are trying to make up, assumptions from myself used to make false points.
IR signature on M-88 is treated on three points, an extra cooling channel and dual condi-nozzles, the extra engine casing which is itself externaly cooled using the same channel than that exhausting between the two sets of con-di nozzles.""
 
The two sets of nozzles are what I 'm talking about . They can be opened or closed :
Closed :
 
 
 
Opened :
 
 
 
I don 't know yet the details on how the system is working exactly (when is it open or close , how is it done , why and what by , etc)  but I 'm looking into it .
 
Cheers .

 
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Herald12345    Don't readback and don't LIE   7/22/2009 3:33:10 PM
When I make a mistake I tell you, and explain the "data" [unverified claim] I find, poster.
 
You didn't have a clue except what stuff you read on an internet forum. At least I had the HONESTY TO LOOK AT THE IMAGE and check it for detail to see aspect.
 
Herald
 
 
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Bluewings12       7/22/2009 3:33:16 PM
Herald :
""The joker, BW, is finally right about one thing.""
 
Lmao ! You did find out that I was right because you took the time to check .
Do that with each of my post and I 'll be happy .
 
Cheers .
 
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Bluewings12       7/22/2009 3:49:58 PM
Herald , regarding the Mica mid-link antenna (which you keep bashing has it 's not well placed , you even said that it was part of the body , etc , all kind of BS ) , look where the antenna really is :
 
 
 
 
 
Do you get it now ?
 
Cheers .
 
 
 
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Bluewings12       7/22/2009 4:11:07 PM
Since I can post pictures for real , I am a happier poster :-)
My personal doc is so huge that I can basically back-up pretty much everything I say with very carefully chosen pics and links . Lovely !
 
Cheers .
 
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Herald12345    Those are two axes vane deflector actuators, you incompetent.    7/22/2009 4:55:14 PM

Herald , regarding the Mica mid-link antenna (which you keep bashing has it 's not well placed , you even said that it was part of the body , etc , all kind of BS ) , look where the antenna really is :

 

 

 

 

 

Do you get it now ?

 

Cheers .


 

 

Yeah, I get it. You don't have a clue. This ranks up there with your droop sensor idiocy.

Herald

 
 
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Bluewings12       7/22/2009 5:07:51 PM
Herald , you prove your case . I let you dig ...
 
Cheers .
 
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Bluewings12       7/22/2009 5:10:54 PM
Find me a picture of Mica who shows where you think the antennas are .
 
Cheers .
 
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Herald12345    Se3e the rennel runs and that tail transmitter? THAT   7/22/2009 5:18:57 PM
 
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Herald12345    Se the rennel runs and that tail transmitter? THAT   7/22/2009 5:21:14 PM
is where the antennas (plural) are.
 
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gf0012-aust       7/22/2009 6:37:15 PM
sigh.  a bit more blah blah.  I'd like to see a comparative thermal shot of this early dorsal Rafale against a ventral later model.

the hot spots are still going to converge in either loc anyway.....  the only way that it wouldn't would be if the vents were pre-chilled, the tunnels were chilled, the materials were changed etc.....

dorsal or ventral you still have a heat exchange problem.

but then again, what would I know ..... 

 
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FJV    I would not be comfortable to put it that way.   7/23/2009 4:38:22 PM
"Traveling waves create challenges on the shop floor and in future maintenance, too. As one Lockheed F-117 engineer put it, ?we couldn?t allow even the tiniest imperfection in the fit of the landing gear door, for example, that could triple the airplane?s RCS if it wasn?t precisely flush with the body.? Any protrusions, such as small fairings, grills, domes, and wingtips, can project radar waves back to the sender. Even rivets and fasteners can act as radar reflectors."
 
Just thinking about what might happen when only the wavelength changes in the same scenario makes me think that it is not as simple as that.
 
It just might be that you want to eliminate any protrusions, because the effects of these are so complex that you cannot (easily) predict what will happen.
 
By making the plane smooth you keep things as predictable as possible so you know what will happen. Eliminating uncertainties in the design as much as possible.
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
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gf0012-aust       7/23/2009 7:11:33 PM
It just might be that you want to eliminate any protrusions, because the effects of these are so complex that you cannot (easily) predict what will happen.

 
you get a disruption in the returning signal, an anomaly triggers an alert.  if you expect "X" and see "Y" then the electronic hair on you neck will go up.
 

 

 

 

 

 

 



 
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gf0012-aust       7/23/2009 7:14:56 PM
By making the plane smooth you keep things as predictable as possible so you know what will happen. Eliminating uncertainties in the design as much as possible.


The issue is making the aircraft "emissions/signature" smooth

eg, there is no direct correlation between architecturally being smooth and signature integrity management.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 



 
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